Musket caps vs Percussion caps?

[Rat Trapper]

Recently I saw one of our local box stores was closing out musket caps cheap. Got me to wondering about musket caps in general. When I got my first TC hawken it had a musket cap nipple in it which I replaced with a #11 hot shot. I know for some reason our military went to the musket caps in the muskets used during the civil war. Today the new in-lines are all using 209 primers. I'm thinking both made those switches to get a hotter spark to the powder. I've been using CCI #11 mag caps with no problems. Seeing those musket caps on the self, got me to wondering about using them. So the question I'd like to ask is: are there any advantages to using musket caps in TC Hawken rifles with either Goex or any of the subs? Is accuracy affected in either way using musket caps?? Has anyone taken the time to test both types of caps in regards to the above questions?

 

[bpbrs]

The switch to a 209 primer was as you stated for more spark. The #11 cap did not have enough zip to sned its flame up a 1-1/2" long hole in a breech plug to the back of a pellet.

The hotter the cap the more errosion inside the nipple & breech plug. This is something the 209 users never consider.

 

[Old40Rod]

Seeing those musket caps on the self, got me to wondering about using them. So the question I'd like to ask is: are there any advantages to using musket caps in TC Hawken rifles with either Goex or any of the subs?

I'm thinking out loud here as I haven't tried musket caps... but my guess is that you won't see any performance difference unless you are shooting heavy loads of BP substitutes.

Think about it. You just need enough flame/heat to insure that all of your powder is reliably ignited under all your reasonably anticipated shooting conditions. Any more will not help you, and may cause unintended problem.

As a soldier with a military musket, you may be shooting in very severe conditions, i.e., with damp charges, very dirty barrels, etc., so a hotter flame would give you a bit of extra ignition insurance. In addition, the muskets were weapons, not heirloom rifles to be handed down.

I have shot real BP and pyrodex in my Cabela's Hawkens, which have similar breeches to your TC. I get reliable ignition with just #11 caps. I have now switched to BP only, and the #11 caps are just fine in everything. If you are getting reliable ignition with #11 magnums, stick with those.

Musket caps may just cause additional erosion of your flash channel and nipple. A larger hole means you will probably get more gas leakage back through the nipple, which can cause your accuracy to suffer, so I am told.

 

[torn moc]

Really no need to switch unless you are shooting a musket or Sharps.
If I send you the $ could pick some of thos caps up for me?( I also shoot a Sharps) I cant find CHEAP caps anywhere any more....
You should actually get some of those caps....you never know when you may become a Sharps shooter!

 

[tg]

Likey the larger musket caps of the past were more user friendly and less likely to be dropped of fumbled with.

 

[Rancocas]

When I built my percussion longrifle, 10 or 12 years ago, I specifically made it to use musket caps. I may or may not get a little better ignition with the larger caps, but I sure know that when I've been out in the cold and wet for hours the bigger caps are much easier for my numb, clumsy fingers to manipulate.
For that reason I have come to prefer the musket caps.
I recently had to do some work on my wife's percussion rifle that uses the little #11 caps. What a pain in the arse it is to fumble around with those little things!

 

[Swampthang]

I put a musket nipple on my TC Hawken a couple years ago. For me the larger caps seem easier to handle and it seems like I get faster ignition with pyrodex.

 

[Landngroove]

I have used both #11, and musket caps in T/C Hawken, and other T/C muzzleloaders. If you are using Goex, or other real black powder, #11 caps give reliable ignition. I find no difference with musket caps. If you are using a sub, such as Pyrodex, or American Pioneer, a musket cap with its hotter flame is the way to go. One advantage I found with musket caps is when hunting, I carry several loose musket caps in my pocket. I find them easier to handle and grab for a quick reload in the field. Otherwise I use a capper for #11 caps, which I don't find as convenient. Of course this is all M.H.O. :grin:

 

[Thunderchild]

Try to install a individual number 11 cap on a nipple with cold hands and then try installing a musket cap (or scared). Musket cap is a bunch easier. Of course you could use one of thoes capping tools for the number 11 cap and do just fine.

In the civil war there were 3.5 million men under arms. cheeper to use a larger cap than buy three million and a half capping tools. I should also say the civil war cartridges were packeged ten to a pack and musket caps came 25 to a pack. for every twenty bullets you got 25 caps. The extra caps would be used for misfires,checking for obstruction in nipples and spares when you dropped them. Just my opinion and not nessarly fact.

TC

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I use the larger musket caps on my .50 full stock and they work great! No problems what so ever. I use 90grs. 2f Goex pillow tick patch w/wonder lube and .490 Hornady ball. Ampco nipple is the one I use. That said above about cold fingers is true. Also made a leather cap holder that have tied to loading block. This set up works for me might not suit others. :thumbsup:

 

[longfowler]

I switched to musket caps a few years ago. and I don't recall having a missfire since then.(now watch my luck go down the tubes!) my wife stayed with #11's, and I had to put a hot shot nipple on her gun to get it as reliable as my musket caps. all we use is Goex 3f, and the damp new england weather can cause lots of ignition problems, so any little bit extra helps.

 

[faw3]

The 2 times I've bought used rifles with those kind of nipples on them they had som kind of fireing problem, like not cleaning the fire passage and in-junkers dont use real powder like real men so need that 209 ( saw in a recent Muzz Blast some clown had made some kind of kill on a moose with this tank killing bullet 150 grs of trip 7 and was lucky to have his scope since it was 49 yds away :rotf: ) Years ago I had a problem getting a target rifle to go off and would put 3f in to start it off and a main charge of 2f. A old timer pulled the breach for me and it was all rusted up in need of a lot of cleaning. Just a reg cap should do you great if all other things are right, And I dont know how true this is but it sounds right, the big flame can set your powder off more like smokeless giveing ya psi's a bit to high (if you tend to like over loading like I tend to do. :grin: ( anytime your hammer cocks itself when you fire you might want to refigure your charge or nipple size. :haha fred :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

You might have a need for them in your case, what do flintlock guys do ? go to magnum flints?? :rotf: Really I used a capper on most my rifles and always cked them out really good when I had any kind fireing problem. I do have 2 musket nipples for "in case of's" what I dont know but I got the caps for my Enfields so why not, I do know you would have to lose some bullet sped from the size hole in those. ( from a study done perc vs flints that had a large vent hole it was about 150 fps at muzz. Fred :hatsoff: ( I can see hunting you would want every edgr so they might be worh the price then too, but "hot shot's" or something in that line should take care of any fail to fire problem. I was rereading these and see Old40Rod has covered all this beter than I could. Put it another way many years ago ( I started shooting MLs in 1971) I had a Mowrey that sometimes went off sometimes didnt, it worked great for a while with musket caps till a few 1000 shots later (you really cant fix the breach and fire channel on one of those) Fred :hatsoff:

 

[shmrck1]

Rat Trapper,
I can only say what works for me,and
the experience I have had with both musket
caps and CCI#11 magnums.I have never experienced
any significant difference in either,except in
price.My only suggestion,regardless of what you
use is make sure the cap is down on the nipple
as far as you can get it with thumb pressure.
Some even suggest using the hammer on the cap to seat it. I personally don't see a problem with
that method,but I have not had to use it.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[Rikeman]

I just converted my Hawken over to musket caps. The onlr reason I did so was for the ease of use. Caps were only $1 more per 100 so seems like it would be well worth the diff. I have not been out to fire it with the musket nipples yet though. The nipples are easily changed (same thread) so if I am not happy, easy to go back. I will let you know what I think after I go to the range friday.

 

[tomdurall]

I made the switch to musket caps about 5 years ago because I was experiencing that occasional misfire with #11's. A fellow shooter recommended I try them. Although these misfires were rare, they always seemed to happen at the most inconvient time. (ie: 8 point kansas buck). Since the change I have shot hundreds of rounds through my rifles and I can't honestly remember a single misfire with musket caps. Also, I must agree with other post's that they are much easier to handle in 15 degree weather in a tree stand. This is strickly my opinion and others are certainly correct that a capper resolves this issue if using #11's.

 

[rabjr]

I used #11s in various guns for 20 years without ever having a problem before switching to flinters. Never saw capping any of them a problem using a good capper.

I am drawing up plans to build a half stock cap gun for my father to use up in the Adirondacks and thought it best this gun should have a musket cap nipple installed. I think it's best to keep everything as simple as possible and even if he misplaces a capper, the bigger cap would be easier for him to deal with.

 

[zukeeper1]

with musket caps I have no worries about hunting with the same load for days , even in wet weather . I can bring the gun inside at the end of the day and go back out the next and KNOW it will fire. Plus as said above , they are a whole lot easier to handle than those number 11's.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Think yoyu'll find the musket cap will put out about as much flame as a hot #11 cap. IF you already have a musket cap sized nipple with the right threads to fit the gun I'd say it might be a good deal for you. Good luck.

 

[ryoung14]

The above responses are correct about the Musket Caps' good points. One thing I found when starting out with Muzzleloading was that the #11 caps gave me better accuracy than Musket caps. I experimented with both on my first ML (an inline :nono: ) and saw a definite reduction in group size with the smaller caps...by as much as half, as I recall. Since I wasn't having any ignition problems with #11s and Pyrodex (even pellets), I stopped using the Musket caps.

Since then, I acquired a couple of sidelocks that were designed to shoot with pellets. They came with both Musket and #11 nipples. I don't use pellets but do use Pyro RS. In these guns, I've found that #11 mag caps sometimes result in delayed ignition. I may revert to musket caps on those guns, but will probably try 3f or Pyro P with #11s first.

One thing about musket caps: You should make sure that the hammer is well centered on the MC nipple and that WITH THE MUSKET CAP IN PLACE the hammer will fully lower over the cap and strike it with the flat of the hammer face. If the raised shield around the hammer face strikes the cap, it's possible that cap shrapnel will start flying around as the hammer shield can't fully do its job. With the larger cap, hammer/nipple alignment has to be nearly perfect for the hammer shield to work properly. Most of my sidelocks can't be used with a musket cap for this very reason.

It's hard enough to find #11s, musket caps are nearly impossible.
Bob