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MVTC, LOYALIST- are they SAFE?,

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"Actually no, I was hurting for money for an engagement ring, and never had a chance.
I sold a bunch of guns, but got the most wonderful woman in the world."

Wow! what a perdicament...woman/gun...woman/gun...woman/gun That would be one that took a lot of well placed thought..
 
"THEY BLEW UP AND KILLED ME."

Glad to see you are feeling better now.....
 
cable said:
all i can say is that i have a MVTC blunderbuss and MVTC matchlock, and on the very first time I fired each of them THEY BLEW UP AND KILLED ME.
.
:rotf: That line made me Laugh! :rotf: :rotf:
Hard too!Why are you Cable Guys so funny? :rotf:
 
tg said:
"Actually no, I was hurting for money for an engagement ring, and never had a chance.
I sold a bunch of guns, but got the most wonderful woman in the world."

Wow! what a perdicament...woman/gun...woman/gun...woman/gun That would be one that took a lot of well placed thought..
He's young.....give him another 30 years and his priorities will change. Women are highly over rated......(Don't tell my wife I said that! :shocked2: )
 
Thanks Paul. I was just curious about the liability of the seller if there were a problem. The seller of the Indian musket that blew up has not been revealed and I wondered if it was to protect them or to prevent some kind of law suit. Since they, the seller, seem safe I wonder why the name has not come out.

Don R
 
Mike Brooks said:
tg said:
"Actually no, I was hurting for money for an engagement ring, and never had a chance.
I sold a bunch of guns, but got the most wonderful woman in the world."

Wow! what a perdicament...woman/gun...woman/gun...woman/gun That would be one that took a lot of well placed thought..
He's young.....give him another 30 years and his priorities will change. Women are highly over rated......(Don't tell my wife I said that! :shocked2: )

Women are much more warmer and soft to curl up with at night but my longrifle is a close second. :v
 
I was married before, and it was not pretty. I am 38 now, and really did find "THE ONE". I realize now that I never was truly happy before. I do miss some of the guns though. But, Heaven willing, I will get some of those back in the next 20 years!
David

PS- I like the folks on this forum better than any other forum I have been on. Y'all are really nice.
 
Don R said:
Thanks Paul. I was just curious about the liability of the seller if there were a problem. The seller of the Indian musket that blew up has not been revealed and I wondered if it was to protect them or to prevent some kind of law suit. Since they, the seller, seem safe I wonder why the name has not come out.

Don R

Nobody that touched the thing on a commercial/professional basis is safe.

Dan
 
Dan: I don't want to debate the point. However, our Products Liability law does not apply to foreign manufacturers. That is why, for instance, Italian, Brazilian, and other nations could have manufacturers make, and sell replicas of the old Colt Peacemaker, without being faced with the same litigation that Sturm, Ruger, and Co. faced. Since the entire doctrine of Products Liability is premised on the manufacturer being the principal defendant liable for its quality and fitness for use, the Courts have not applied Products Liability to importers, distributors, and retailers. I do think that if someone improves, modifies, or otherwise works on a gun made over seas, and that ADDITIONAL WORK is found to be a cause of an injury or defect in the product, that liability would lie with any such party located in this country. The stated reasoning for not extending this Judicial doctrine to foreign made goods has to do with the Separation of Powers, and the Constitution's limit on the conducting of Foreign policy to the Executive Branch Exclusively. YOu have to remember that Strict Liability Doctrine DID NOT exist in English Common Law, and was constructed by a very activist court in the 1960s, as a judicial remedy.
 
paulvallandigham said:
Dan: I don't want to debate the point. However, our Products Liability law does not apply to foreign manufacturers. That is why, for instance, Italian, Brazilian, and other nations could have manufacturers make, and sell replicas of the old Colt Peacemaker, without being faced with the same litigation that Sturm, Ruger, and Co. faced. Since the entire doctrine of Products Liability is premised on the manufacturer being the principal defendant liable for its quality and fitness for use, the Courts have not applied Products Liability to importers, distributors, and retailers. I do think that if someone improves, modifies, or otherwise works on a gun made over seas, and that ADDITIONAL WORK is found to be a cause of an injury or defect in the product, that liability would lie with any such party located in this country. The stated reasoning for not extending this Judicial doctrine to foreign made goods has to do with the Separation of Powers, and the Constitution's limit on the conducting of Foreign policy to the Executive Branch Exclusively. YOu have to remember that Strict Liability Doctrine DID NOT exist in English Common Law, and was constructed by a very activist court in the 1960s, as a judicial remedy.

I would not want to risk my house and income for life on this.
If someone. If a gunsmith so much as looks at one of these things then so much as hints that its safe and it fails and someone gets hurt or killed do you REALLY think the gunsmith is safe from being dragged into court??
I learned enough about this sort of thing while I was a flight instructor to know he is not safe.

Dan
 
Dan: A Plaintiff would have to find an " Expert " in the same field( gunsmith) to testify that in his Opinion, the examining gunsmith failed to use ordinary care in inspecting the firearm, and that his failure to do so WAS A PROXIMATE cause of the injuries sustained.

I don't know any gunsmith who examines any gun that gives out " Guarantees", because we all know better than to do so. Anyone can be sued, IF THAT IS YOUR POINT. I have been sued several times. I was once sued four different times by the same Defendant, in Federal Court, and only was served papers in one of the suits, which was dismissed. I learned of the other three when checking out a Federal Court file on the guy, where references to the three other suits that named me as one of the parties being sued were contained.

This was years after the suits were dismissed.

In one case, the Attorney General of Illinois entered his appearance on behalf " of all defendants" and filed his motion to dismiss, which was granted. The actual attorney( Assistant Att. Gen.) who filed the motion was a former law clerk of mine, and even he didn't bother to call me to tell me he was representing me in a new suit!

But if you want to assert that anyone can be sued, YOU ARE CORRECT! Beyond that, you are being unnecessarily an alarmist. There is NO case I have read where an instructor has been successfully held liable for the negligence of a student. ANd product liability chains don't include " inspectors ", unless they either worked on the gun, or sold it to the plaintiff.
 
paulvallandigham said:
Dan: A Plaintiff would have to find an " Expert " in the same field( gunsmith) to testify that in his Opinion, the examining gunsmith failed to use ordinary care in inspecting the firearm, and that his failure to do so WAS A PROXIMATE cause of the injuries sustained.

I don't know any gunsmith who examines any gun that gives out " Guarantees", because we all know better than to do so. Anyone can be sued, IF THAT IS YOUR POINT. I have been sued several times. I was once sued four different times by the same Defendant, in Federal Court, and only was served papers in one of the suits, which was dismissed. I learned of the other three when checking out a Federal Court file on the guy, where references to the three other suits that named me as one of the parties being sued were contained.

This was years after the suits were dismissed.

In one case, the Attorney General of Illinois entered his appearance on behalf " of all defendants" and filed his motion to dismiss, which was granted. The actual attorney( Assistant Att. Gen.) who filed the motion was a former law clerk of mine, and even he didn't bother to call me to tell me he was representing me in a new suit!

But if you want to assert that anyone can be sued, YOU ARE CORRECT! Beyond that, you are being unnecessarily an alarmist. There is NO case I have read where an instructor has been successfully held liable for the negligence of a student. ANd product liability chains don't include " inspectors ", unless they either worked on the gun, or sold it to the plaintiff.


The CFI was simply teaching students as is perfectly legal but was not doing so in an "approved" part 141 flight school so he had no set syllabus. He was sued and lost because he could not prove he had properly instructed the student since he had not carefully written everything he had taught the student in his own log book as well as the students. The students log book was destroyed. So the plaintiffs claimed he did not properly instruct the student and it stuck. I don't recall all the details but this would have been 1975-1977 time frame. It was well published in the flying press. I paid attention since I was a full time CFI, but I was in an approved school and this was pretty good protection it was thought.
This was just a few years before the lawyers virtually ended the production of light aircraft in the US due to lawsuits because people sometimes flew them into the ground and killed themselves so the manufacturers were selling "unsafe" aircraft.
Kinda like suing Colt or Smith & Wesson when some drug dealer shoots another drug dealer. If someone can be sued for a third party's actions over which they could have no control what limits people from suing gunsmiths for selling or even failing to tell someone not to shoot what turns out to be a "defective" firearm?

I don't have any spare change for legal fees.
Dan
 
jimmytheshank said:
Until you load them................ :grin:

:haha: yes until you load them with morbed incompetence just like any other musket.

Ive said it many times...hell whats onece more, I shoot my musket often, and reinact with it.

Yet to see its better as far and performance,looks and general whoop assery goes.

I wouldent sell mine for 2 thousand dollars cash If it was offered.

Though I admit the sublimeness of her could have something to do with my constant doting on her.

Needless to say she never fails when the shot is to be made.
 
Don R said:
Thanks Paul. I was just curious about the liability of the seller if there were a problem. The seller of the Indian musket that blew up has not been revealed and I wondered if it was to protect them or to prevent some kind of law suit. Since they, the seller, seem safe I wonder why the name has not come out.

Don R

If I had been representing either the manufacturer,seller,shooter,or any other person involved in any way with this unfortunate accident,you can be sure that my client would not so much as uttered or written a single syllable about said unfortunate accident on this board or ANY other forum without my express written permission.
It will doubtless surprise many if not most of you that you have absolutely NO legal right to be informed as to ANY aspect of this accident.I am frankly a little surprised that the attorney representing the possible seller/manufacturer allowed the statement to be circulated via the WEB.Having said this I find myself in agreement with Paul in this matter as to the liability issues in products liability cases.

I fully realize that many of you will probably be outraged by my comments and to those I say Grow UP and welcome to the real world of liability and our litigious society.
Tom Patton
 
When all the dust settles David, you will have to make that decision for yourself, as with a ML purchased from most any builder.
 
Agree 100% Tom, this whole thing reminds me of the incident many years ago when some nimrod blew up a muzzleloader using "black powder"...turns out it was Unique, or one of those, but the grains were black colored!! "Never underestimate the powers of a schnook!" Boris Battenoff
 
It's good to see you posting again, haven't heard from you in a while.
Tom Patton
 

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