My huntin' load?

[NORD]

Howdy all!

I have about one week before my deer hunting season starts and I was going to go shoot my muzzle stuffer this weekend just to brush up. I shoot a fifty caliber muzzleloader with a 1:60 twist using 60 grains of Swiss 1.5F black powder under a wonderwad, 0.012 mink oiled patch and a 0.490 pure lead ball. This load will consitantly shoot two inch groups at 100 meters...very accuarte load for me anyway. Do you all think this is a powerful enough load for taking a mule deer at 100 yards? Should I try sacrificing some accuracy for a little more energy down range...say trying about 70 grains of Swiss 1.5F black powder, or is 60 grains plenty?

Thanks for your info and time!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Don't know how hard a mulie is to ventilate compared to a whitetail, but my .50 cal hunting load this year will be 84 gr. FFg; and lots of hunters would tell me that's a weak-sister of a load (I had been using 90 gr FFg and 350 gr. Maxi-Hunters in this particular rifle). I use 90 gr FFg in my .54 with PRB in my Renegade, and plan on using slightly less in my upcoming flint longrifle.

At 100 yards your load carries about 300 ft lbs of energy, and that is bordering on enemic. But I certainly wouldn't want to try and catch one, myself. I have a little ballistic program at home that I can check that on, maybe someone here now can, too. It doesn't tell the whole story, but it gives a hint.

If you drop one in on a nice broadside it will still down the brown, but if it first smacks the legbone or shoulderblade??? With good bullet placement you should expect good results.

Personally, I'd try working it up a bit or getting a scoach closer to the deer.

 

[musketman]

I don't have Swiss data, however I have FFg data before me, so I will offer it for you to ponder...

(32" barrel data)
60 grains of FFg (G-O) has 356 FT/lbs at 100 yards
70 grains of FFg (G-O) has 389 FT/lbs at 100 yards

I think 60 grains would be OK out to 60 yards, of course, shot placement is the key, projectile energy is next...

You can have all the energy the gun can muster and if the ball is placed in the wrong spot, you'll be ordering takeout instead of mule deer steaks...

Having stated that, what is the maximum safe charge for your gun?

If you can work up to say, 90-100 grains (500 FT/lbs), then yes, you should be able to take a mule deer at 100 yards distance...

What if it's as simple as 10 yards per 10 grains???

50 grains is good for 50 yards, 100 grains is good for 100 yards, and so on, and so forth, ect, ect, ect...

 

[NORD]

Thanks for responding to my thread!

I think I could increase my load from 60 grains Swiss 1.5F to 65 grains Swiss 1.5F without much deline in accuracy.

I have been told by experienced black powder cartridge shooters that 60 grains of Swiss powder is equialent to 55 grains of Goex powder...I guess Swiss powder burns cleaner and hotter then Goex powder.

So if I could increase my load to 65 grains of Swiss powder then that would be equivalent to 70 grains of Goex powder. Do you all think 5 more grains of powder would make that much difference in my down range energy to warrant messing around increasing the load before hunting?

 

[musketman]

Do you all think 5 more grains of powder would make that much difference in my down range energy to warrant messing around increasing the load before hunting?

It would make it flatter shooting, the more power, the less arc you will produce...

Work up your load, if you're not happy with it, go back to 60 grains Swiss 1.5F and reduce your range a tad...

You get good results with the 60 grains Swiss 1.5F, so shot placement is left to your judgement, do your part and the gun will do it's job...

 

[Plains99]

I've taken a couple of mule deer with a .45 round ball and 70 grains of FFg but its a tough row to hoe if your shot isn't right on. There isn't much blood trail and they can disappear into the nether regions if not hit in a vital spot. Accuracy as stated by others is crucial but if you have confidence in your load and your shooting, you can do it. Much beyond a hundred and you need to reconsider. When I did a lot of round ball hunting with the above mentioned rifle I drew the line at a hundred and passed on the shot.... but that's the challenge of black powder and you know you've earned it when you are successful.

 

[cayugad]

:imo: and only my opinion, I think the load will take a mule deer for you out to 100 yards. Lets hope you do not have to shoot that far. Most of the time I figure a rifle for 100 yards and end up shooting the deer at 30 yards but that is the way it goes.

As they were saying, if you can place your shot then go ahead and try. Shot placement is always the most important thing when shooting at anything. You can fire a cannon but if you can't hit the target it still will not knock it over. Otherwise be sure and have your track shoes with you....It could be a long walk.

 

[NORD]

I don't plan on shooting further than 100 yards...last year I was prepared to shoot out to 100 yards and ended up shooting my deer at 25 yards. I shot the mule deer through the chest broad side and it went down so fast I didn't even see it fall! :thumbsup:
Last year I was shooting the same load stated above.

 

[Rat]

Well...better to be prepared for the 100 yard shot, and take one at 25...then visa-versa!!

It looks like your rifle's twist is more than slow enough for a stouter load than 60 grains. That does sound kind of weak...but I'm used to .58's and .75's. Are you really losing accuracy when loading up? Sometimes a hotter load will shoot better...just depending on 1000 different things.

I could not tell from your post if your accuracy actually fell off with more powder, or if you are assuming it will.

Five grains is a pretty small increase...can you try 70 at least? Group size is a whole other subject...but a 6" group at 100 yards will kill a deer size animal...especially if you make that your maximum range that you will shoot at.

I think lack of power would be a bigger trade-off, than a small increase in group size. Personally I'd go for an 80 grain load, if it did not shoot over 6" at 100.

Draw a 6" circle on a piece of paper...it's not very big. Even if you DOUBLED your group size with a 70-80 grain load, that's only a 4" group at 100 I sure don't see a problem with that for hunting. I mean, we're not talking 400 yard shots with a 7mm Magnum here.

Now draw a 4" circle on the back of that paper...does that really worry you, as far as putting a ball in the kill zone??

Rat

 

[roundball]

Just to toss in :m2c:, I believe in stout hunting loads for several reasons:
I plan and scout and practice and wait all year long for a few rare chances at deer so I don't want to be loaded with marginal loads when the opportunities final do present themselves...ie: am I going to clip a little unseen twig, am I going to hit a large bone, or get a great opportunity at the maximum edge of practical shooting distance, etc.

As a result, for my deer hunting with PRB's in a .50cal flintlock I use 90grns Goex FFFg (or 110grns Goex FFg) so there's no doubt about the outcome...I save the lightweight 50/60 grn loads to plink cans on the 50yd line during the rest of the year when it doesn't matter.
:results:

 

but my .50 cal hunting load this year will be 84 gr. FFg

:what: 84 grains :: So you're useing premeasured charges weighed with a scale I assume. With a prb and iron sights do you find enough of an advantage over say, 80 or 90 grains thrown from a measure to warrant such precise metering ::

Cody

 

[CG6018]

I tend to agree with Cody concerning precise bp loads in back of a prb. I have found 5 grain increments to be about the limit of any discernible difference in down range performance for these old eyes and my ability to hold steady on the the bull. My .54 cal. long gun shoots 80 grains of FFFg. in back of a .535 ball and .015 patching as good as I can hope. Two days ago, it downed a Pa. doe in her tracks at about 45 yards. She was no western muley, but I think I could have had similar results out to 100 yds. if my sights would co-operate. :imo:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Nope. It's a 2-1/2" bone measure with a cherry base plug with a narrow ( 1/2" ) top opening that I cut to length once I found a load I liked. It throws as consistantly as my Lyman #55 lever activated powder dispenser at similar voulmes.

I measure the loads on my RCBS Model 5.10 Reloading Scale to verify the charge by volume is consistant.

50 yards offhand last Sunday with an open iron sighted, single non-set trigger T/C New Englander. That's a 3" across-the-flats square. .50 cal, 84 gr FFg, 0.021" cotton tic. w/my own lube mix. Each ball is also weighed and is within 0.5 gr or it is returned to the casting pot.

Measure precisely, shoot precisely.

:blah:

 

[NORD]

Nope. It's a 2-1/2" bone measure with a cherry base plug with a narrow ( 1/2" ) top opening that I cut to length once I found a load I liked. It throws as consistantly as my Lyman #55 lever activated powder dispenser at similar voulmes.

I measure the loads on my RCBS Model 5.10 Reloading Scale to verify the charge by volume is consistant.

50 yards offhand last Sunday with an open iron sighted, single non-set trigger T/C New Englander. That's a 3" across-the-flats square. .50 cal, 84 gr FFg, 0.021" cotton tic. w/my own lube mix. Each ball is also weighed and is within 0.5 gr or it is returned to the casting pot.

Measure precisely, shoot precisely.

:blah:

Very nice shooting! What will that load do out to 100 meters?

 

[NORD]

Well, I went out shooting the old smoke pole this weekend and it still seems to like the 60 grains of 1.5F Swiss black powder. I did how ever bump the load up to 70 grains and I was getting 4 inch groups at 50 meters and about 7 inch groups at 100 meters. Then I would jump back to the 60 grain load and go right back to cloverleafing at 50 meters and 2 inch groups at 100 meters.
One thing I did try about a year ago was bumping my load up to 80, 90, and 100 grains of powder...and it would shoot ok , but very inconsistent, and I also noticed that my patches were ripping down the barrel, thus causing the incosistent grouping.

Got any ideas? I have about a week before my deer season starts.

 

[Stumpkiller]

What will that load do out to 100 meters?

Don't know yet. I'd have to do some massive deforrestation to get my 50 yard range out to 100 yards, and since it's not my property . . .

I'd say under 6" with my vision. I've got to get out this weekend and do some longer range work. Season doesn't open here until November 22nd.

 

[roundball]

On heavier loads, put a prelubed Oxyoke wonderwad down on top of the powder as a firewall and those groups will (should) tighten right up...I use them on all heavy hunting loads...they increase velocity and improve accuracy by better sealing off the fire & pressure under the patched ball.

And in an attempt to make an even better seal, I use the next larger caliber size wad for a given rifle...ie: .58cal wad in a .54cal barrel, .54cal wad in a .50cal barrel, etc, etc...the pressure forces the larger wads out into the grooves and when you pick them up off the range, they look like tiny gears where the lands made indentations in them...patches are in such perfect condition you could reuse them.

Wonderwads don't seem to be of much benefit with light target loads if you're already using a thick, strong, well lubed pillow ticking type patch to begin with, particularly since they tend to be a little pricey just for plinking at the range.

And as an alternative to a wonderwad, even seating an extra lubed patch downbore first provides improvements as it will also give added firewall protection to the patched ball

 

[NORD]

That is a good idea! I use 50 caliber wonder wads but I never thought to use the next caliber size bigger to get a better gas seal. :thumbsup:

 

[NORD]

I found some interesting information!

I was told that when shooting round balls, and once you exceed 70 grains of 2F black powder you won't gain any real any real substancial energy down range, because the round ball doesn't have enough bearing surface or weight to burn a complete powder charge of over 70 grains in an average Hawkins barrel. The only way you can get more energy down range is to change powder coarseness (use 3F, which I don't recommend in a 50 caliber), use a longer barrel, or use a tighter twist barrel.

Does any one agree or dissagree, or have anything to add to this extra bit of information I found?

Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

First time I ever heard of such a thing, and to be honest it sounds like an "old wives tale"...I do believe there's a crossover point where a disproportionate amount of gain occurs for a set increase in powder, but my personal belief is that's it's higher than 70grns...but I'm not qualified to declare that for the record.

In addition, the most common hunting load recommendation that seems to officially get published most everywhere is 90grns FFg as sort of a middle of the road charge.
:m2c:

Regarding FFFg...speaking from my own experience, I only use Goex FFFg in .45/.50/.54 calibers for PRB's in standard 1:48" barrels, and in 1:66" / 1:70" round ball barrels...for me, FFFg is an excellent, fast, clean, accurate powder in those calibers with PRB's.

Goex FFg works best for me with the larger bore .58/.62cal round balls.