My Powder Drum Blew Out. Is My Barrel Done For?

[theoldredneck]

Most definitely retire the old gun. I'm willing to pay shipping for you to send it to me. Wouldn't be surprised if several others wouldn't make the same offer. Would be nice if you include the old drum and nipple, but wouldn't be a deal breaker. In the effort to be totally truthful I will tell you up front that myself and others that make this offer fully intend to fix the gun and use it. I would remove breech plug and check it first. Then go from there, worst case cut barrel just past damage. Thread and install new breech plug and drill and tap for new drum and nipple. Then refit to stock. I do not do work for the public but there are several good smiths that do. I would call or write Holt if I didnt do it myself. PM me if others talk you into making it into a wall hanger. I would love to have it and make a shooter out of it. It would definitely be my gain and your loss even with me paying shipping and packing. Bless You Sir

 

[22ceejay]

Have a local builder recreate a new gun from ground up. Hang the original on the wall and keep having fun. The safe way!

 

[fleener]

As others stated send it to Hoyt.

Fleener

 

[TC Tommy]

That's a full stock, cutting off the breach and fitting a new plug means you have to shorten the stock, relocate
the pins etc. It doesn't look salvageable to me. If you want to keep using that stock, (and it does look nice),
I would have a new barrel made and fitted to it. Then you know for sure that will not fail again, at least not
there.
Maybe the old barrel was trying to tell you something. If you want to keep it around for the wall, find an old
beater stock, put the two together and hang it. You'll have you gun and a wall hanger, having cake and eating
it too.

 

[Eric Krewson]

If that is the same Jacob Young I think it is you have to be very careful with what you do to the gun, it may be a treasure. I have held one of his guns and looked it over at at a museum, he was an important builder of note if it is the same J Young.

Look down the page for info on his guns.
http://libertylongrifles.com/galleries-of-guns/re-creations-of-classic-originals/

 

[Eric Krewson]

Tale a lot of picture outside with good light an post them in the antique gun section on the American Longrifle site, they will tell you what you have and probably direct you to someone who could restore it.

 

[Kansas Kid]

It’s reached its service life and is just for looking at now. Yes anything can be fixed but it’s not worth it. Keep it or sale it if someone wants to give you more than it’s worth. Get a new replica of it.
Plus if it does have some collector value it won’t have any with a bunch of new parts on it.

 

[rdane]

Time to let her rest. She’s done all she can do. Put her in a place of honor.

 

[andy52]

Considering I really like the look of that rifle I'd spent the money to have it fitted with a new barrel and tang and possibly a new lock probably a flint.

 

[Davey Boy]

That is a beautiful rifle.

I wouldn't let it out of my sight (shipping).

In my opinion, it should get repaired enough to shoot again and then get hung up for display.

You could also just glue in a new drum and leave it, the more you do to it that detracts from it's value would make it just another piece of metal and wood.

I like the idea of getting the barrel to Hoyt but I would not cut the barrel down.

I have used Helicoils for extreme environments. I would do that. I would not do anything to the barrel that would mar the finish.

 

[loud41]

Considering I really like the look of that rifle I'd spent the money to have it fitted with a new barrel and tang and possibly a new lock probably a flint.

I'd love to put a flint lock on it. The current lock is clearly original to the rifle as the scroll work matches everything else. However, the lock itself is so primitive. Opening it up, everything, including the screws, are very obviously hand made with simple tools. Every piece has been stamped with a number "3". Someone has been at it before, as it has sanding marks on it like from a sander or grinder. The main hole has been repaired in an attempt tighten up the cock. The double trigger assembly interfaces with the lock so well however. I'd need professional help/advise if I were to want to fit a new lock. I've shot black powder, but I've never fiddled with them like that. I'd love to learn! Probably not in this instance though.

 

[S.Kenton]

I like the idea of installing a new barrel on it. Then hanging up the old barrel or
Making a lamp out of it... or somthing.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I have heard of powder drums blowing out before. Obviously, this can be very dangerous for anyone standing to the shooter's right. Percussion guns with drums screwed in the side of the barrel work very well, but they need to be checked periodically for stability.

Just one guy's opinion here, but there is no way I would try to refit a drum in that hole. It just looks too big.

You have several options. One is to retire the rifle and save it as a wallhanger, and this might be something to consider if it is truly a valuable collector piece. I would be reluctant to glue the drum back in for appearance sake... Somebody may try to shoot it.

Another option is to cut the barrel off at the breech, refit the plug and tang if it's any good, or replace it if not, relocate the tenons, shorten the stock, and move the barrel back. This has been discussed.

Another possibility which I have not seen discussed in this thread yet is to cut off the barrel at the breech, and fit something like this:

I could not find a good photo of exactly what I was looking for, but I hope this one will suffice. The one shown above is a hooked breech, but it doesn't have to be hooked... it can be in one piece. It serves as a barrel extension as well as a breechplug.

The image below may illustrate it better, although the "PhotoBucket" banner obscures things somewhat:

The plug has a small-diameter "powder well" or chamber, and the drum screws into the side. You can see from the illustration that CVA came up with their own twist on the idea, but either way, this makes a strong breeching system, particularly for a relatively small-diameter barrel. This is actually much more secure than screwing the drum directly into the side of the barrel itself, even for a new rifle. You get the drum (or touch-hole liner for a flintlock) much more solidly anchored. This technique has been written up in the past, and has been used to salvage a few old guns and make them shooters again. You don't hear of it much now, and I expect it would require a very skillful gunsmith/machinist to fit it all together without having to modify the lock or stock, and I have no idea who might take on a job like this now. However, it has been done.

Respectfully suggested,

Notchy Bob

 

[longcruise]

I suggest you start with eric krewson's advice.

 

[loud41]

I have heard of powder drums blowing out before. Obviously, this can be very dangerous for anyone standing to the shooter's right. Percussion guns with drums screwed in the side of the barrel work very well, but they need to be checked periodically for stability.

Just one guy's opinion here, but there is no way I would try to refit a drum in that hole. It just looks too big.

You have several options. One is to retire the rifle and save it as a wallhanger, and this might be something to consider if it is truly a valuable collector piece. I would be reluctant to glue the drum back in for appearance sake... Somebody may try to shoot it.

Another option is to cut the barrel off at the breech, refit the plug and tang if it's any good, or replace it if not, relocate the tenons, shorten the stock, and move the barrel back. This has been discussed.

Another possibility which I have not seen discussed in this thread yet is to cut off the barrel at the breech, and fit something like this:

View attachment 57928

I could not find a good photo of exactly what I was looking for, but I hope this one will suffice. The one shown above is a hooked breech, but it doesn't have to be hooked... it can be in one piece. It serves as a barrel extension as well as a breechplug.

The image below may illustrate it better, although the "PhotoBucket" banner obscures things somewhat:

View attachment 57929
The plug has a small-diameter "powder well" or chamber, and the drum screws into the side. You can see from the illustration that CVA came up with their own twist on the idea, but either way, this makes a strong breeching system, particularly for a relatively small-diameter barrel. This is actually much more secure than screwing the drum directly into the side of the barrel itself, even for a new rifle. You get the drum (or touch-hole liner for a flintlock) much more solidly anchored. This technique has been written up in the past, and has been used to salvage a few old guns and make them shooters again. You don't hear of it much now, and I expect it would require a very skillful gunsmith/machinist to fit it all together without having to modify the lock or stock, and I have no idea who might take on a job like this now. However, it has been done.

Respectfully suggested,

Notchy Bob

This seems like a pretty viable option up to this point. Thank you so much for this suggestion!

I love this rifle as it looks great and makes people smile when I bring it out. It's certainly not a museum piece, which makes it a wonderful shooter. All the fun without the guilt! Plus I hate the idea of hiding it away if I could potentially avoid it. I'll try contacting Hoyt Monday morning and offer this suggestion if appropriate (if I get a hold of him hehe).

In the meantime, I'd love to do better research on the rifle. I will take better pictures and submit them as suggested!

 

[Eric Krewson]

At least let the guys at the ALR site look at it before you alter it, you may be turning a 4k gun (just a guess) into a $600 gun.

 

[russellshaffer]

Eric has a great suggestion that doesn't cost you. And that is a very good site with lots of info.

 

[GregLaRoche]

As this thread has been progressing, I have come to realize how old and valuable this gun could be. I think you need to get two expert opinions. One from someone who is knowledgeable, as to the origins and history of the gun and therefore its historical value. Second you need the advice of an expert in the repair of historic guns.

Depending on its age, it may originally have been a flintlock and then converted to percussion. Many flintlocks were converted using the same lock and just changing the hammer. The conversation may have been done using the original barrel or it could have been fitted with a new one.

Whatever you do find out all you can before proceeding.

 

[loud41]

As this thread has been progressing, I have come to realize how old and valuable this gun could be. I think you need to get two expert opinions. One from someone who is knowledgeable, as to the origins and history of the gun and therefore its historical value. Second you need the advice of an expert in the repair of historic guns.

Depending on its age, it may originally have been a flintlock and then converted to percussion. Many flintlocks were converted using the same lock and just changing the hammer. The conversation may have been done using the original barrel or it could have been fitted with a new one.

Whatever you do find out all you can before proceeding.

Certainly will do so before proceeding with anything. There have been a few J. YOUNG's who have built rifles. I've seen only one other rifle that was built in a very similar fashion. The stamping on the barrel was identical, along with the patch box and decorative stamping. No information on that rifle other than the pictures unfortunately.

 

[GregLaRoche]

It would be interesting to have some detailed pictures, close ups of the rest of the gun. Maybe someone will see an identifying characteristics.