mystery rifle

[Rifleman1776]

The rifle below belongs to a friend of my son. The owner claims it was built in 1825 and was owned by his grandfather. I am dubious. I am not an expert on styles and 'schools' but the heavy construction and patch box inlay look familiar to me. I believe it is ca. 1970-1980s. I know, lousy pic. What say the jury?

[/URL][/img]

 

[azmntman]

percussion lock in 1825 should be identifiable/?

 

[Richard Brinkman]

What's the rifling look like the old gunsmiths cut their rifling much different that what is done now. Also if you pull the barrel there might be a name there?

RB

 

[KABAR2]

May have been built in 1825 and converted in the 1850's need better photos to tell anything for sure

 

[zimmerstutzen]

how many grooves in the rifling?? Odd could be old, even, probably contemporary.

 

[galamb]

The patchbox looks like something you would see from Western Pennsylvania or Virginia.

The butt plate looks quite (thin) across it's width and the crescent fairly deep which kinda doesn't fit with the patchbox.

What I can see of the trigger guard looks like it could fit with the patchbox region (could be a Virginia/Shenandoah style - but at that angle, could be a Leman guard as well).

For me it's mostly the slim butt, severe crescent that screams "much later than 1825"

 

[Zonie]

I agree.
The thin very deeply curved butt plate is from later than 1825. Perhaps 1840-1860 would be closer.

The stand off sideplates on the patchbox also became popular in the late 1830's thru the 1850's.

The shape and drop of the stock is very similar to the guns produced in Huntingdon County Pennsylvania.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Here is my 2cents worth.
Screws tell a lot.
Old steel wood screws mostly had rounded or blunt tips ( they were hand cut or swedged modern screws, 1890's until now were stamped and pointy, also the innards of the lock were hand cut, not stamped, cast, or mill cut.
Also the rear sight was not cast.
The ram rod is most often scraped round, look for scrape marks. Also on the stock look for scrape marks, not a sanded finish.
Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

OK, we now have some marks identified. All there is: "Rashmark KSBH"

Means nuttin to me. Anybody recognize?

 

[Chris Sweeney]

Could it be "R. Ashmore?"
Lockmaker in the 1840's I think.

I have a similar gun that I was told was made in either Buck's County or Lancaster county around 1845. The patch box is quite similar

 

[Ed Hamberg]

Need a LOT more pics to make an intelligent ID of this rifle. The name on the lock is usually the lockmaker and the gunmaker usually signed the barrel between the rear sight and breech....LK

 

[MacRob46]

Yes...

More photos and more detailed photos are needed for any kind of studied opinion.

 

[Robert Egler]

Whenever people say something was owned by their Grandfather it is wise to remember that their Grandfather might have bought it from Dixie in 1975, so it would honestly have been "owned by their Grandfather" without actually being old.

Not saying that's the case here, its just an observation

 

[Dphar]

The rifle below belongs to a friend of my son. The owner claims it was built in 1825 and was owned by his grandfather. I am dubious. I am not an expert on styles and 'schools' but the heavy construction and patch box inlay look familiar to me. I believe it is ca. 1970-1980s. I know, lousy pic. What say the jury?

[/URL][/img]

Need more photos.
Could be from 1825 but its very doubtful it was made as a percussion in 1825.
The percussion cap was not patented until 1822 and even then it was not the cap in use by about 1830. When the copper/brass cap came into being. The early ones were reloadable steel.
Dan

 

[Keb]

The picture is distorted IMHO so the butt plate curve is exaggerated & the trigger pull looks almost as long as the barrel. :/

 

[rich pierce]

Gut reaction is that it's an original from 1840's or slightly later.

 

[Dphar]

The picture is distorted IMHO so the butt plate curve is exaggerated & the trigger pull looks almost as long as the barrel. :/

ALL firearms photos are invariably distorted due to the length of the barrel. Pistols are pretty close but there is always some distortion. But I think a side view will show the crescent is pretty close and actually typical Such as many of the Ohio rifles and even some iron mounted "Southern Mtn" rifles from probably 1820 onward.

Dan