Need advice with lock removal

[11Bravo]

In my recent major estate purchase besides the dozen wheel guns the was a single shot percussion. It looked so good I figured it was a repo. The side lock is screwed up so I popped the wedge and on the bottom of the barrel was marked "Hitchcock Muzzy & Co." The lock is marked London Warranted. Turns out Hitchcock Muzzy was a barrel maker in Mass. That is why his name was underneath, made barrels 1840-1857. Now I want to be real careful and need to know the best way to proceed with getting the lock out. Thanks much

 

[user 48679]

After removing the screw(s) that hold the lock from the left side, I would hold the gun in one hand, lock plate uppermost, then gently keep tapping on the gun (not on the lock plate) with a padded tool in the other hand until the plate loosens from the vibrations - similar to removing the side plate from a S&W unmentionable.

 

[hawkeye2]

The 2 screws coming in from the left side hold the lock in place. Loosen each one a little, an equal amount and gently tap on the screw heads with a soft mallet. That will push the plate out evenly, repeat till it is free. Why is the hammer off?

 

[11Bravo]

I follow you on the tapping part but I should have shown the left side of the pistol. In the picture the screw in the tang piece was all I could find holding the lock plate under the hammer. Unless there is a screw under the german silver inlay? The inlay has a rivet in the left side of it pinning it to the stock in the barrel channel.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Lucky you! That's a very cool pistol.

I have never seen an adjustable, open, tang-mounted rear sight like that before. Very interesting!

I would agree with @hawkeye2 regarding removal of the lock. I prefer to put the lock on half-**** first, then loosen the lock bolts about one full turn. Don't take them completely out. The head(s) should just protrude a little. Turn the pistol lock side down and press the bolt heads (assuming there are two of them) with your thumbs to ease the lock out of its mortise. If there is only one bolt, you could tap the bolt head gently with a plastic, wood, or rawhide mallet. If this doesn't free the lock completely, turn the bolt(s) another full turn and repeat.

There is a special technique for removing the hammer, also, but it looks like you already took it off. You don't want to pry it or wiggle the hammer on that square shank.

Notchy Bob

 

[11Bravo]

Thanks Notchy Bob, I agree about it's looks. What really impressed me was the patch worm on the ramrod. Unscrew it turn it around and go for that patch.

 

[hawkeye2]

It wasn't necessary to remove the tang to remove the barrel but it may help to gain access to the lock plate. Be careful removing the lock as it could chip out some wood, looks like a snug fit. Without seeing more I would try to pry the plate loose going in where the bolster cutout is. Start with a thin knife or screwdriver and work very gently. I have never seen a lock attached like that one. A beautiful piece. BTW at the time that pistol was made cast steel was the very best steel available. It took a high quality steel to cast with.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The screw that you removed from the lock on the right side holds the plate. There’s nothing on the left. The lock may have a hidden catch at the front end of the lock.
Don‘t pry as this quality of gun wasn‘t made for such handling. Stop! Figure it out or find some one that knows.

 

[Ontario47]

Very unusual pistol! I doubt there are any screws under the silver decoration on the left side. I would guess the only screw holding the lock is the one you have already removed (into the tang on right side). It is possible that the main spring (if fully un-cocked) is tight against the bottom of the lock inletting. As suggested set the hammer at half-**** and tap in front of and behind the lock plate with a well padded mallet. Go easy!!! that is quite a find you have.

 

[11Bravo]

That is why I was also trying to remove the trigger guard. I know the style as after I free it from the wood I turn it to remove from the trigger plate. That part is stuck also? I don't want to force anything, at 74 I have learned patience if nothing else.

 

[11Bravo]

Ontario47, You may have hit on something. Why I need to pull the lock is it wont hold half **** or full **** and the trigger doesn't move hardly at all.

 

[hawkeye2]

If you haven't noticed you have a single set trigger. The trigger is pushed forward to set it and it may be in the fired position now. See the adjustment screw for the trigger in the back of the trigger itself. To remove the guard take the lower screw out and the guard will either be hooked into the trigger plate at the front (likely) or it will have a projection that screws into the trigger plate (less likely) and you turn the entire guard to unscrew it.

 

[Ontario47]

Remove the trigger guard and trigger plate. That is probably a single trigger, set trigger assembly . It may be interfering with the sear. Warming the steel parts with a hair dryer (not a paint remover gun) helps soften the gunk holding things in place. If the hammer will not stay at half-**** wedge a wood dowel (of right length) between the hammer face and the lock plate drum cutout. Or wood pin in plate screw hole uncovered when hammer is cocked?

 

[kh54]

It seems to me that this is all becoming much too complicated. Simply put it back together and slip it into the mail to me. I'll PM in a moment with my address.

 

[Woody Morgan]

It seems to me that this is all becoming much too complicated. Simply put it back together and slip it into the mail to me. I'll PM in a moment with my address.

What a guy!

wm

 

[user 34300]

Why are we taking it apart? Nothing good will come of this. Working on fine old guns is a specialty job that few trained gunsmiths do well.

Old wood grows tight around the metal. Old wood is brittle. It will break. Without quality screwdrivers screws get ruined. We have already mentioned how not to remove a hammer. It is a very nice gun. The best plan is to wipe the parts down with an oily rag and gently put it back together before serious damage happens.

 

[EC121]

A lot of English guns had the lock held in with a only screw in the breech plug or standing breech and maybe a hook on the end of the plate. The screw in the end showing in the nose of the lockplate is where the hook is. The lock should come out tail first. The sides of the lockplate should be tapered to come out after some light tapping.

 

[11Bravo]

With all the good input, that I really appreciate, I also realize it is hard to diagnose an issue with the Internet. Here is what I looked at hard and got the trigger group free. Firstly I never knew there was a single set trigger, never had either types. Before I touched any thing I wondered why the front of the trigger plate was sitting proud of the stock. When I removed the guard screw early today the guard just sat in the inlet and wouldn't swing. Tonight I thought maybe just a slight tap on the front of the trigger plate, well it dropped right down into the stock which freed up the guard from the stock on the other end. The front part of the guard was just riveted to the trigger plate and rotated freely. Trigger came right out and now the lock (which is still in) works fine. So tomorrow I'll take photos of the trigger set up and you folks can talk me through it. This gun was part of the buy my buddy and myself bought two weeks ago (I posted the pistols in the handguns section) this is one I may keep as I would shoot it, unlike those old Colts.

 

[11Bravo]

First off the hair dyer did the trick, just about fell out after warming. Thank you Ontario47 for that tip. No damage done as I set out to do, I have repaired firearms for many years. But I'm just getting back to my ML roots. I have included pictures of the lock and the trigger group. I was alarmed when I saw the cut in the mainspring, but realized it wasn't a crack starting. My guess the notch was to reduce tension? The trigger group I feel works as it does click in to allow the thinner blade to move up with a trigger pull. As I said before I am not familiar with the set trigger and really don't understand the chain of events what happens after the "set" trigger is pulled.
Now the questions if I may. I take it the lock gets installed first, should it be half cocked?
How should the trigger be installed? Set or doesn't it make a difference?
I'm just every surprised the builder used one screw for the lock, and only one screw for the trigger group. Thanks again every one

 

[sdilts]

With some single set triggers, the trigger must be set first before the lock will ****. You might try that .