Need help purchasing first Flintlock

[brdhntr]

I've been shooting a percussion cap for about 15 years, not very serious, but enough to learn a little about it. I wanted something to add another level to hunting. I once owned a CVA Bushwacker percussion gun and loved it with the shorter barrel. For me it was a great deer hunting gun. A while back I was searching the net and found a site that had the Bushwacker in percussion and flintlock. Now that I'm ready to buy I cannot find the site anymore, but in looking have ran across several comments that cause me some concern. I've read in more than one place to stay away from the "economy" flintlocks from Traditions or CVA, etc.
So I have 2 questions, the first being could anyone validate or dispute what I have read about these lower end flintlocks, and if they are alright, would you know anywhere I could find one. If not any recommendations for a good gun would be appreciated. I'm looking for a good carbine style gun that is easily carried and have a shot a friends flintlock a couple of times and really enjoyed it. To me to be able to take a deer with it would be the ultimate. Thanks for the help.

 

[Le Grand]

Some outfits make cheap flintlocks.
Others make good flintlocks.
But nobody makes a good cheap flintlock.

 

[ohio ramrod]

IMHO Traditions and the older CVA (CVA stopped making traditional guns ) acceptable in percussion, but every one I know that had them in flint had problems. RPL replacement locks solved their problems!

 

[rabjr]

flintlocks from Traditions or CVA, etc.

All I can tell ya, you'll never see either one of these in my house. If a custom gun is out of the question think about putting together a parts kit. You can collect the parts over time on the gun you want. If thats out of the question, look into the Lyman or T/C kits which are basically just finishing the gun with parts mostly fitted. Or just buy Lyman the price isn't that bad and most here who own them like them.

 

[smokymtnsmokepole]

I have an old CVA Mountain Rifle flinter that seems to work pretty good to me. All of us aren't rich enough to afford those 5,000 dollar custom guns, so we shoot those worthless rifles that all the fine people snurl their noses up at and won't speak to you any more after they see you touch one and seem afeared that their hi-falutin guns will catch rust poisoning from 'em. :grin: I know it ain't a custom gun, but it'll go bang and kill a deer and lets you shoot instead of spending a few more years staring at a picture of a gun that costs more than your truck did.

 

[rabjr]

I have an old CVA Mountain Rifle flinter that seems to work pretty good to me. All of us aren't rich enough to afford those 5,000 dollar custom guns, so we shoot those worthless rifles that all the fine people snurl their noses up at and won't speak to you any more after they see you touch one and seem afeared that their hi-falutin guns will catch rust poisoning from 'em. :grin: I know it ain't a custom gun, but it'll go bang and kill a deer and lets you shoot instead of spending a few more years staring at a picture of a gun that costs more than your truck did.

I'm glad for you, really am. Just said me personally would not want anything to do with them. Thats my choice. Btw I'm not rich enough to afford $5000.00 guns either and the 3 custom guns I own added all together might reach that much.

A friend had a CVA kit one time we opened up. The trigger guard broke in half just taking it out of the box and we quickly found out the barrel was drilled off center and the muzzle was way to one side. When I worked in a gun/bait shop in the 80's we got 12 CVA "Fronteers" I believe they were called cause they were cheaper than the T/C's. I remember they sold for 99.99 and we of course sold them all just weeks before hunting season. Well within 2 weeks 9 of those 12 came back with various broken parts. :shake: It was sickning and like I said you'll never see one in my house, never.

 

[MercerLake]

:v First flintlocks are a lot like first cars, the first likely won't be the last. Get the best that you can afford and like! It is important to if possible check to see if it sparks well before you buy. Lyman has a good reputation and stand behind what they sell. Most good gun shops will stand behind what they sell also. Given the choice of saving a few dollars or spending slightly more for better parts and reputation, I'd go for the best that I could afford and like. Have fun and enjoy the hunt! :v

 

[Le Grand]

Just for a look-see, go to http://www.avsia.com/tvm/ and peek at some good rifles. The Southern or Tennessee Poor Boys are nicely affordable.

 

[redwing]

Get a good rifle to start off with. Buy American, you can not beat buying a rifle where the long rifle was born. I don't call buying an American Rifle by American Craftsman being a snob. :shake:

And no they don't cost $5,000 dollars. You can get a good rifle from folks like Mat Avance TVM for a little more than one of those made in Italy. It will have an American lock, barrel,and wood all done by the fine folks down in Miss.,USA. :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

A flintlock that just doesn't quite function can be a miserable thing. If you have the knack (or are patient enough to learn) you can do some tuning and improving yourself. That's how probably all of the current gunsmiths got started.

Years ago I had one of Dixie's Tennessee Mountain Rifles in .32 and it was a barn-burner when it went off - which was about half the time. I wish I still had it. That was before this website (and the L&R replacement drop-in lock) and I had no talents at improving the ignition.

But if you don't want to futz and haven't got local help you would be well advised to start with a servicable flintlock. The old saw about "getting what you pay for" certainly applies. If I were just starting out I'd check the used m/l sites daily and be ready to call as soon as something used and simple but of good quality appeared.

 

[smokymtnsmokepole]

One of these days, I'll have a good non-production flintlock, but everybody has to start somewhere. It just bothers me when someone makes snobby generaliztions like "all CVA guns are worthless junk," simply because they're not custom made or American. And a lot of people who say that don't own one. I own two CVA's-a St. Louis Hawken percussion that I've had for ten years or so with absolutely NO problems of any kind. It's been used hard and frequently, too. I've killed probably over twenty deer with it, it's more accurate than I am, and I can sit all day in the pouring rain with it and it still goes bang every time. Never had a misfire that I can remember. That's just stating the truth that I've experienced in using it and shooting it over the years, not some jaded opinion that I'm saying just because I don't like a certain type of gun. Does it have the authenticity, good looks, great feel, and soul of a custom gun? Of course not. Is it a solid, reliable, hunting rifle? You damn right it is. And at a tenth of the cost of most hand-made guns. I'm just getting to know the Mountain Rifle flintlock, but it seems to shoot, handle, and go off about as well as some of the much more expensive guns I've shot over the years. Would I rather have a custom gun? Of course. Will I one of these days? Hopefully. Am I going to throw away a good gun simply because it says CVA on it? No. Instead of walking to work every day, I think I'll drive my old truck that gets me from point A to point B until I can afford that new Cadillac. I ain't ashamed to be seen in my old truck or too good to drive it until I can do better.

BTW-I checked out those TVM rifles, and they look like a great gun for the money. May have to start sticking back my pennies and dimes.

 

[Many Klatch]

Almost any percussion lock will pop a cap no matter how badly they are made. Flintlocks are a lot fussier about how they are made. With 25 years of experience I can make any piece of junk flintlock work eventually, but I had a long steep learning curve.

What everyone is trying to warn you is that some of the less expensive flintlocks are an opportunity to learn gunsmithing whether you want to or not. If you don't mind spending a year or two trying to figure out why the thing won't go off all the time then a cheap lock can be a bargain. If you are going to try and go hunting with it without a lot of work that snickering sound you hear will be the deer as they trot away.

There isn't anything wrong with a CVA muzzleloader, but they were not put together with the care of a more expensive front stuffer.

Many Klatch

 

[rabjr]

It just bothers me when someone makes snobby generaliztions like "all CVA guns are worthless junk," simply because they're not custom made or American.

I never said it quite like you state it above. As I said I'm glad for you that your works and your fine with it. I worked at a gun/bait and tackle shop and I saw nothing but junk from CVA while there and quite a few irate customers.

 

[hanshi]

LeGrand and redwing are right; a cheap flintlock may or may not work properly. It might drive you to violence, however. I have CVA and Traditions percussion rifles and have taken more deer than I can count with two of them and many squirrels with the other. But they are percussion AND they were cheap. I've had them a long time.

The advice concerning Matt & Toni at TVM is worth money. I've had extensive experience with their flintlocks and can tell you they give up nothing to a percussion. I own 4 of their rifles and I'm far, far from being rich. I just sold my modern gun & went flint. I recommend their Southern Poorboy. It actually costs less than a few production Italian guns I've seen. I have one in .36 and love it. forget about $5000 or even $1500 rifles. Talk with Toni & find out for yourself. Check the for sale on the forum(s), There are good deals on hand made used and new flinters to be had.

 

[smokymtnsmokepole]

:surrender: I wasn't trying to come across as argumentative, I'm just saying that some of the CVA's were decent, reliable guns. Some of them were junk, too-and in all fairness, I bought a cheap CVA mountain stalker many years ago that was junk. It was the cheapest thing they made and it showed. It had a decent barrel, but the ignition system was unreliable and the sights were horrible and the whole gun was just...well...cheap. By the time I got it to shooting right, I had spent more than it would have taken to just buy a decent gun to begin with. The two good ones I've had were kind of the CVA flagships at the time they were made, and they are decent quality for the money, comparable to T/C's similar models at a slightly lower price. They made a lot of low-end stuff too that nobody was satisfied with. Kind of like a Pinto and a Mustang are both Fords, but there's a world of difference between the two, and if a Pinto was the only Ford you've ever driven, you probably would never go buy the Mustang. At the end of the day, the Mustang still isn't a Ferrari, but it'll still get you arrested for speeding. :grin: The main thing both my CVAs lack big-time is authenticity (though the Mountain rifle is a little further in the right direction than the Hawken,) they shoot well enough, and yes, I had to do some minor tinkering with the flintlock to get it shooting right. I certainly wasn't saying that they're anywhere near in the same league as a custom/handmade rifle, but just decent shooters and hunters for the money. And maybe I was just lucky and got hold of a couple of above-average ones. I don't think CVA even makes traditional guns now anyway, they're all about the plastic bolt-action "muzzleloaders."

 

[tg]

I wish there were still some CVA-ish entry level guns around some of the prices on the "traditional" production guns have become ridiculus for what you get, at least in the authenticity department, I hope some of them shoot better than they look.

 

[brdhntr]

Thanks for all the comments, I've decided to do a little more shopping and research before buying. I don't have time to learn gunsmithing, and hope to make the time to learn a flintlock. thanks again!

 

[NCrebel2533]

i havent heard of TVM or their kits. what is the average price for one of them and how is the quailty compared to a pedersoli rifle kit?

 

[ebiggs1]

You gotta pretty much NOT wear you feelings on your shirtsleeve around here if you ain’t got a custom gun! I was treated like I had the plague when folks on this site found out I was using a Thompson Center flintlock. Fact is I almost gave up flintlocks because of it. I didn’t and don’t you let anyone dismay you either. Get the gun you can afford, of coarse get the best gun you can afford. I and some others here are willing to get you shooting as easily as possible. You don’t have to spend a fortune to get a good shooter. But you will spend a fortune when you do get a good shooter because flintlocks are addictive, very addictive. It’s all I want to shoot anymore.

 

[sproulman]

Thanks for all the comments, I've decided to do a little more shopping and research before buying. I don't have time to learn gunsmithing, and hope to make the time to learn a flintlock. thanks again!

here is what i would do .look at gunshops or paper for used T/C HAWKINS .50 CAL OR .54 CAL.me i like .50 cal but i dont hunt anything above whitetail.if hunting above that look for .54 cal if you can find one, they are notto available.

with the explosion of the IN-LINES i am seeing more T/C HAWKINS FLINTLOCKS for sale.
buy a green bobber light to drop down barrel to look to see if it has a LOT of rust or in fair/good shape.
200/300 should be area that you should pay for T/C HAWKINS used.
i dont like the GUNBROKER sites as i would like to look inside barrel for rust before i would buy it.if you can get HONEST person to tell you bore is fine,then go for it on gunbroker sites but i got burned over years, some will lie thru their teeth.
sometimes the guns are for sale near you and you could drive to their home and look at gun.

new hawkins are going for over 500 dollars.........
dont be in hurry, look around, use my fishing bobber green light from LINDY to look at bore and you will be very happy for longtime.
in fact, there is member here that was going to sell his hawkins a while back .his name is ROUNDBALL,drop him pm ,he may have 1 for sale.
i believe he is honest person and i feel you can trust him on sale.

take care, SPROUL