Need help purchasing first Flintlock

[michael dismukes]

Howdy- My 2cents worth here.... Go to the Dixie website, get the catalog, order from them what you want and can afford. Great selection, great customer service, been in business for decades serving the BP community. Bought my first BP flinter from them (the Perdisoli 50 cal Penn.kit) and have been a loyal customer since.

 

[MSW]

don't know if Roundball has any left for sale, but i can assure you of his absolute honesty... he mailed me some stuff on just the strength of an e- mail. ... didn't know me from the next string of electrons on the internet.

you could do much worse that a Thompson Center, either in flint or cap. i bought one in the early eighties and it's served me well ever since. there's been much made of the 'replacement lock' for their rifles, but mine has always worked great. their reputation for customer service is what the standard should be.

by way of disclaimers: you won't be 'traditional' or 'hc/pc' (to whatever standard you want to push the definition) their rifles aren't really very close to what came ouf the Hawken brothers shop in St Louis. so, if you want historical accuracy, you'll have to resign yourself to spending a good bit more money.

also, flint of any type takes some tinkering and testing. i've personally found that to be part of the fun- there's something magic about flint- what can i say? start with Mr. Fuller's flints, and don't bother with the cut agates :barf: also, with a T/C, you're probably going to be restricted to a fifty caliber if you stay in flint (their barrel maker is pretty busy filling orders in support of the war).

Although i've never built one, Lyman's kits look easier to put together that the parts kits you'd get, which can take several hundred hours to build- so you save some dough, but you spend some time (no free lunch). I have nothing against Lyman- just never owned one of their rifles, so all i'd do is repeat what others have said, which is overall pretty good.

don't worry too much about people looking down their noses at your rifle, making fun of you 'cause you don't have the kind of gear they think you ought to have - no-one can make you make you feel bad about yourself without your consent.

goo luck in you quest for the flintlock, it won't be the last.

 

[hanshi]

Addictive, they are!

 

[ebiggs1]

Man I could have written that reply! One thing that still seems "fuzzy" to me is this. It seems any kit or gun on this forum is OK unless it is sold by Thompson Center.

 

[ebiggs1]

I whole heartedly support this. ROUNDBALL is first class. He is in a huge way responsible for my 'success' with my flintlock. Contact him if you can he is not very active here right now.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There are lots of kit T/C rifles around that are excellent shooters. You have the wrong impression here. With kits, there have been problems with most all of them, at one time or another. That does not mean you can find a well made kit gun, however.

Personally, I believe the problems relate almost solely to who is working " quality control" on the products line, and how backed up they are on filling orders. Some of the parts that come with kits are so poorly made, you have to be convinced that NO one took the time to examine the part before it was shipped.

Most companies will stand by their products, and will ship you another gun if you are unhappy with the first, however. I think this more the Norm for the firearms industry, than the exception. Companies cannot afford to get a reputation for putting out bad products, or giving bad service. The word gets around too fast.

 

[ebiggs1]

I do not understand the ire that seems to go with the mention of Thompson Center here. And it also seems to be just in the flintlock side, as I do not sense it in the percussion forum. Maybe it’s just me but my experience with TC guns has been fine. I got my first one, a cap and ball Hawken .50 cal. in 1970. It still is a fine gun today.

 

[fyrfyter43]

I do not understand the ire that seems to go with the mention of Thompson Center here. And it also seems to be just in the flintlock side, as I do not sense it in the percussion forum.

Honestly, I haven't seen this bashing of TC guns that you mention. I do, however, recall folks giving you a hard time about your TC Firestorm. Of course it's not very traditional with its black plastic stock, stainless barrel, removable breechplug, aluminum ramrod and fiber optic sights. Nor the fact that it's designed to burn Pyrodex pellets. Many of those "features" make it much like those guns which are not to be discussed here.

There is nothing wrong with a "traditional" TC, besides the fact that they are not, in fact, an accurate replica of any original gun. But then again, neither is the Lyman GPR that many of us recomend to most folks new to MLs.

However, I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of us here would prefer a nicely-built custom gun over a mass-produced TC. Just think back to the complaints you had about the vent location on one of your TCs. I've never seen anything like that on a gun from any of the reputable custom builders.

 

[Finnwolf]

I've been muzzloading for over 35 years here in PA. I'll always have a special place in my heart for T/C but you should hear all sides.
Started out fooling with a caplock pistol kit some one gave me when I was 17. I finshed that kit and got hooked. To hunt in my state at that time required a flintlock shooting a PRB, so I borrowed a T/C hawken built beautifully from a kit by a friend. Fit and finish was top shelf, the touch hole was well positioned and it shot like a dream. No one else here would buy anything but a T/C hawken and in those days, they did not make much else I bought me a used T/C Hawken.
The thing was not well taken care of but it was a T/C, my T/C and all I could afford. Shot PRB to a 3-5" group at 50 yards and I could usually put holes in a paper plate at 100 yds. She was hard to load the last few inches but she usually went off if I kept her clean and dry with a sharp flint in her jaws. I recall hunting in the rain but that rifle went off at the end of the day if I kept her dry.
She got me out in the woods after Christmas and kept hunting season alive for a couple more weeks and I loved everything about that gun, except when I was at the range. It fouled after a couple shots so I had to clean after 2 if I wanted to load a 3rd shot. Got 20-25 shots out of each flint 'cause the lock bashed 'em so badly. Still, I did her over completely, took out all the dings and scratches and reblued the barrel. I had her for about 5 years when T/C came out with the PA Hunter advertised with a 1:66" twist, .010 deep grooves and no shiney brass. Claimed it was a lot more accurate than the 1:48" hawken so I sold my hawken and bought a brand new PA Hunter. I could not make her shoot any better than the 1:48" hawken and she had a definite bad habit of not firing when a deer was in front of you. I had it happen to me 3 times and I actually saw it happen to another guy that had a PA Hunter on a drive one snowy Saturday. I knew how he felt when he hurled that gun into the back of his pickup!
Luckily, I only owned the PA Hunter for 15 years when fate felt sorry for me and the gun developed a crack in the wrist. I dutifully sent the stock to T/C for a replacement but they told me it "might take 6-8 months". I definitely got the idea that I might never see a replacement stock in my lifetime, so I acceped their offer to send me a hawken stock. They said my PA Hunter barrel would "drop right in" but my barrel was oct-round and did not match up well in the hawken stock. So T/C promised to send me a 1:66 hawken barrel if I sent them the PA Hunter barrel. The barrel they shipped had such a poorly positioned vent that I complained to T/C and sent the whole rifle to them again. They sent me a brand new hawken rifle with the touch hole well positioned, a new barrel and a new lock. I realized I was now back at the point I was 15 years ago. I no longer liked all the shiney brass and I was not about to go through another 15 years of problems and torture.
I got one of those "custom rifles" you talk about and I wish I could could have done it years ago. I sold the new T/C to help finance the custom gun and now I only own T/C percussion guns. I found over the years that T/C is committed to making percussion guns that do work. They are (were)commited to fast customer service but time and time again, they ship flintlocks that should not get out the door. Where I work, if we screw up and a customer is upset, we make sure he gets EXACTLY what he wants on the next shipment so he isn't more frustrated. These people do not do that - they often ship the next problem very quickly. I truly feel that T/C no longer cares about flintlocks, maybe they don't care about all traditional guns. The last 10 years, they seem to care more about the other types of guns they make. They discontinued most traditional guns and raised the price on the Hawken ridiculously high.
Be smart and buy yourself a used Hawken, even better a used Lyman GPR. There are so many out there that if you're careful, you can get a really good traditional gun for $2-3 hundred.
Finnwolf

 

[Tom Compton]

Damn, Finnwolf, that was long enough to do Paul proud. :grin:

 

[Finnwolf]

I had another page and a half but I delete it. Paul and I get paid bt the word.

 

[tg]

"I do not understand the ire that seems to go with the mention of Thompson Center here."

I have not really seen this going on here, a few may snub amy production gun but the TC's and most halfstock production guns were made with the guns of the RMFT in mind and most catch enough of that to make the mark at most events and there are some guns that are a bit closer in appearance to these production guns being made in the late '40's thru the civil war,sometioes if the owner of a production gun posts comments that are not factual or misrepresentitive of the level these guns reach in the PC/HC there will be some posts determined to explain the facts so to speak,there are a couple of pieces of gear that go with ML's that are quite modern some folks add to and use with these guns that often brings up a challenge to whether they are traditional as a whole, but they are no doubt a quality product(TC) and a good starting point and may be as far as many care to go down the traditional path, my Dad bought a .50 TC Hawken the second year they were made, he has picked up a couple of traditions but almost always goes to the TC for Deer season.

 

[tg]

I would also add another A+ to Roundball, if you want to know about TC's he be da man.

 

[ebiggs1]

Well I agree that is a long but interesting reply. However, my experience with TC has been 180 degrees from yours. They have done exactly what I wanted if I had a problem. I now have 15 TC’s. They don’t care even if I am not the original owner, which I am not on 14 of them. The one I use mostly, the new one, has gone over 90 shots on a single flint. You can’t be serious about some forum members and their boisterous responses to TC owners. One even had to have the Forum Administrator step in to put a halt to it. Also are you trying to tell me custom guns never have problems? I would find that hard to swallow. As for accuracy, it shoots better than I can. I am still new and have been working on what makes them go bang more than I have on accuracy. But that will change soon as I now have very high confidence they will work every time I want them to.

 

[ebiggs1]

See the reply to Fnnwolf as some applies here also.
I have noticed that some of the PC/HC group doesn’t seem to care if ancillary accruements are not PC/HC. Just the fact their guns are. But I don’t care if that makes them happy, more power to ”˜em.

 

[ebiggs1]

Oh, BTW, I did get the opportunity to try a Lyman GPR and a Pedersoli, at Cabela’s. Personally I didn’t care for either compared to my TC’s. In fairness though, I have spent a lot of time figuring how a TC works and what makes them work. I also have quite a supply of extra parts for TC’s. Perhaps if I had started with the Lyman, the situation would have favored them. I doubt it would change for the Pedersoli.

 

[tg]

"I have noticed that some of the PC/HC group doesn’t seem to care if ancillary accruements are not PC/HC. Just the fact their guns are."

That sounds more like the wannabe PC/HC group :hmm:

 

[tg]

"You gotta pretty much NOT wear you feelings on your shirtsleeve around here if you ain’t got a custom gun! I was treated like I had the plague when folks on this site found out I was using a Thompson Center flintlock."

When was this? any chance the thread is still around? I do not recall the incident.

 

[ebiggs1]

I imagine it is still somewhere but I would rather not say who it was. It was handled prudently and should be dropped. I also got some private posts concerning this.

 

[fyrfyter43]

"You gotta pretty much NOT wear you feelings on your shirtsleeve around here if you ain’t got a custom gun! I was treated like I had the plague when folks on this site found out I was using a Thompson Center flintlock."

When was this? any chance the thread is still around? I do not recall the incident.

TG, like I posted earlier in this thread, he's probably talking about the thread about his TC Firestorm, an abomination with a black plastic stock, stainless barrel, aluminum ramrod, removable breechplug, fiber optic sights, that was designed to use Pyrodex pellets. Ya know, a zip gun trying to be a flintlock. Designed by TC so that more PA hunters could take advantage of the late flinlock season.

Several folks let him know that it's not exactly the epitome of traditional flintlocks.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/238998/fromsearch/1/hl/firestorm/tp/1/