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Parts interchangeability accompanies the CNC locks, makes it easier to repair if needed.
Newer CNC locks?
- Thread starter TerryK
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IMO, the biggest advantage to CNC is the process itself. Making a the design change is QUICK. Pull up your 3D CAD software, make the necessary change, load the new design into your CAM software, and post it out to the machine to make parts - with a nice surface finish. Vs ordering a new casting made. A couple of hours vs days, or weeks. AND, you have 1st hand control of the entire process.
While you can still make a 1st class part from a casting (and you don't have the capital cost of a fairly expensive machine to pay for), if I could justify the cost, CNC would be my choice.
While you can still make a 1st class part from a casting (and you don't have the capital cost of a fairly expensive machine to pay for), if I could justify the cost, CNC would be my choice.
user 34300
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Chambers locks are good. They are among the best of the cast parts type locks. I have a Chambers on an early Kibler SMR. I have no complaints.
When you compare a lock from the big two lock companies to a CNC Kibler, there is no comparison in quality. Yes, it cost $100 more for the Kibler CNC over the bag of unfinished cast parts. You get what you pay for.
When you compare a lock from the big two lock companies to a CNC Kibler, there is no comparison in quality. Yes, it cost $100 more for the Kibler CNC over the bag of unfinished cast parts. You get what you pay for.
I don't see the $100. Kibler's lock's are $235. Chambers' locks are $195. The CNC advantage comes, as previously mentioned, in the consistent tolerances and supply chain control for manufacturing Jim K.'s CNC inlet kits. He has vertical control of the supply chain.
user 34300
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I was including a comparisons to two main companies that sell cheap locks made with all cast and mostly unfinished parts. Those locks are about $100 cheaper than Kiblers'. I was not talking about Chambers.
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Interesting posts and a world away from my inititive getting flint locks and Wheellocks made in India 1973 all hand & eye made if using brass template jigs like tools presisly like the ' Historical Arms making' booklets the NMLRA put out. I took out an original Nock lock & the Wheellock from a trusting friends rifle and used part of locks that where in India . With the crudest tools like the buiscit tin with charcoal forge, & me sat with them extorting "Poliss '& "Same to same ,Original "in a grotty shop off Meston Road Cawnpore (Kanpur they call it ) several grades of percussion, any hand ordered doubles , any size,' one offs'. no problem other than the usual "We have the red tap system" Or with guns or double's , falling blocks ect . "The Magistrate is wanting some teeps" stuff .
" Indistan 'See the fun ! they would say with a hand flourish & the eye roll bit !'. I once took an antigue double 16 bore to get made as percussion drum & nipple as it was, or flint locks as it originally was . The Bombay authoritys denied my takeing it up to Cawnpore not having the usual licences (Or maybe Teeps ?.) The official was nice about it and he had a relative worked in a hospital in Chesterfield where my sister worked . . Well that killed that initiative . On return I collect the gun but get into hot water carrying out old flasks and locks Chittal Stag and two double rifles . They had customs going out . Anyway an annoying oik hauls me up the the same bloke ide met coming in the oik rails on about my sins .My earlier official Says " Oh its ok I know him." so the oik buzzes off disgruntled and ime off the hook . But missed the Air Quate plane . 24 hours in Bombay air port isn't fun . But the rest of my stuff is still going round the carrosell at Heathrow . '' Bit of the Raj coming home' ?" the UK customs man says . So I say" These are antigue, , these stand me at so & so pounds ect ect " .He says'' By your account that will be 15 pounds please'' . " .Oh ' well you will have to hang onto them as I've only got ten $ US" .which was true" . ' I will come back in a couple of days " . he replies "Oh I see" " , Don't come it too often ,bugger off " So I did .
" Youth was cheap wherefore we sold it ,Gold was good we hoped to hold it. And today we know the fullness of our gains " . From Kipling's 'Christmas in India' sort of fits . I sold locks & used a lot on my make guns they are still good locks from a time when there where no other locks much other that Siler kits and Blue Gras sorts . non to be had in UK at least . Long Post.
Regards Rudyard
" Indistan 'See the fun ! they would say with a hand flourish & the eye roll bit !'. I once took an antigue double 16 bore to get made as percussion drum & nipple as it was, or flint locks as it originally was . The Bombay authoritys denied my takeing it up to Cawnpore not having the usual licences (Or maybe Teeps ?.) The official was nice about it and he had a relative worked in a hospital in Chesterfield where my sister worked . . Well that killed that initiative . On return I collect the gun but get into hot water carrying out old flasks and locks Chittal Stag and two double rifles . They had customs going out . Anyway an annoying oik hauls me up the the same bloke ide met coming in the oik rails on about my sins .My earlier official Says " Oh its ok I know him." so the oik buzzes off disgruntled and ime off the hook . But missed the Air Quate plane . 24 hours in Bombay air port isn't fun . But the rest of my stuff is still going round the carrosell at Heathrow . '' Bit of the Raj coming home' ?" the UK customs man says . So I say" These are antigue, , these stand me at so & so pounds ect ect " .He says'' By your account that will be 15 pounds please'' . " .Oh ' well you will have to hang onto them as I've only got ten $ US" .which was true" . ' I will come back in a couple of days " . he replies "Oh I see" " , Don't come it too often ,bugger off " So I did .
" Youth was cheap wherefore we sold it ,Gold was good we hoped to hold it. And today we know the fullness of our gains " . From Kipling's 'Christmas in India' sort of fits . I sold locks & used a lot on my make guns they are still good locks from a time when there where no other locks much other that Siler kits and Blue Gras sorts . non to be had in UK at least . Long Post.
Regards Rudyard
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Killerangel
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Own both...both very recent purchases...it's not even close. Won't bad-mouth anyone.....but there is a big difference in lock geometry, quality of components....and the resulting spark. New is not always better....but the gap grows when the quality of one has also significantly diminished recently.
I don't have recent Chambers lock to compare, but Jim recently changed the design of the Late Ketland. Can't say how it compares with the old design. After a friend got his early-batch Laubach, I cancelled my order for one. Then he sent his back so I can't comment on how they work. The demo lock I saw at the CLA show looked good and sparked well. I like the lock, but I would buy one only after I had it in hand to inspect.
C.Laubach
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ok… I wasn’t going to get into this but EC121.. please explain to us what was wrong with the Laubach lock?..I’m reading the email from your friend now… and would love to discuss.. so please inform us…
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I've tuned a couple hundred locks over the years, and blueprinted hundreds of bolt and single shot actions. I found the Kibler needs the least work to get the performance I want. Chambers makes a good lock, but I do spend a couple hours fully tuning one. Could probably do it faster, but I don't rush things. I have had a cock and one or two springs break on Chambers locks, but they are fast getting a replacement part to you.
What needs to be tuned on a Kibler lock? You stated "work must be done".
Having programmed CNCs before, there is more to it than that. One often over-looked concept to the lay person is which way the tool feeds into the stock, by conventional milling (teeth cut into the part against the feed) or climb milling (teeth cut with the feed). The difference can account for the surface finish as well as meeting tolerances, and is dependent on the geometry being cut.
So personally, as a lefty and as a former machinsit, I'm not surprised one bit that they haven't made lefty locks yet ...
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And a few matchlocks, wheellocks and snaphaunces would be outstanding...
Haha ... perhaps we might see LH'd flintlocks 1st ...
You are correct. I'm a retired mechanical engineer. I never programed a CNC, but I know full well about cutting teeth. Some of the cutters would have to be reversed to cut effectively. It can be done, but one has to consider the capital expenditure for something that would receive less than 10% of sales. It would almost be more effective to purchase a dedicated CNC, which is a huge capital outlay.
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Dear Treestalker. Much as I am somewhat devoted to archaic stuff and In fact I am 'Archaic stuff' I cant really see there would be any huge demand for them. But I can remember when new flintlocks where not that common. So who knows it could be' The new way backwards ' Navy Arms offered two sorts of Wheellocks years ago but I recall there was little general interest . The great boom of interest in muzzle loading may have subsided but the keen seem to be more emaginitive and have in many cases been very studious as this forum frequently illustrates .
Regards Rudyard
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Something to consider in the above mentioned is that all production of parts is or at least was initially outsourced IIRC. Is that still the case? I don't know but am curious.
C.Laubach
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All of our lock parts are milled on a 5 axis mill. The vendor is 15 minutes from us. We do not have a 5 Axis HAAS mill in house if that’s what your asking?
Thanks
Chris Laubach
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I agree; it would have to be a labor of love, a most rare item in today's world.
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Blasphemy! LOL!
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