Newly discovered Early Flintlock Rifle?

[Artificer]

Folks, I just tripped across this while looking for something else. Not sure if anyone had seen it previously or knows anything about it?

I can't speak to the accuracy of the write up from the link, but here it is:

"This rifle turned up in Western Pennsylvania, where it has remained for nearly 70 years. It has not been previously photographed, published, or offered publicly. For an example of a rifle with very similar relief carving, buttstock and comb architecture, and trigger guard finial, see rifle number 98 on pages 430 to 433 of "Volume II: Rifles of Colonial America" by George Shumway. The rifle shown in the book has extremely similar features and is signed "J.P. Beck", who began his gunsmithing career in 1772 or 1773, according to Shumway. He worked in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. Like this example, the rifle in the book also has an unusual original single-set trigger mechanism. The early heavily swamped octagonal barrel has deep eight groove rifling and a dovetailed silver front sight. One of the bottom flats is stamped with a sunken cartouche of an ax, towards the breech. The notched rear sight is in the German style and once has a folding leaf for longer distances mounted in front of the fixed sight. The early banana lockplate is Germanic in style and has three engraved lines near the tail as well as an unbridled pan. The Germanic brass furniture is cast and un-engraved. The buttplate has a three-stage stepped tang retained near the tip with a screw. The Jaeger-style trigger guard terminates with fleur-de-lis style finials ending with a ball at both ends. The trigger floorplate also mimics this design. The early ramrod ferrules have vase-and-ring turnings and the nosecap is retained to the barrel by a screw in the center of the ramrod channel. Nosecap is decorated with a wedding band. The sideplate shows Moravuian Christian Springs influence and has beveled edges and two moldings surrounded on each side by engraved lines. This early example was made without a toeplate. The full-length highly figured American maple stock shows very early form with a wide butt measuring 2-3/8" across the buttplate at the widest point. There is a sliding wooden patchbox on the right side, although the lid is an improper replacement and the four "C's" carved in front of it were added later. The left side features a molded relief cheekpiece with foliate scrolls on the left and a larger C-scroll with relief scrolls forming an "A" just as the J.P. Beck rifle in Shumway shows. There are also shaped relief panels around the lock and sideplate terminating in teardrop shapes at the back. There is a stylized relief shell design with incised decoration surrounding the barrel tang as well as relief carving around the comb. The ramrod is a contemporary replacement. For another example of a rifle with similar furniture, buttstock profile and carving, see the Johann Adolph Doll rifle on pages 67 - 76 of "Moravian Gunmaking II" by Robert Lienemann. The William Antes rifle on page 97 of "Moravian Gun Making of the Revolution" by the Kentucky Rifle Association and Kentucky Rifle Foundation has a nearly identical sideplate and similar carving, as well. CONDITION: Barrel retains a mostly brown surface and shows some wear and scratches. Lockplate is original but lock is a good professional reconversion, functions properly. Furniture shows scattered marks from use and some wear, retains a mustard patina. Foremost ramrod ferrule shows some denting. Stock retains a pleasing patina with much original dark finish in protected areas. Stock shows heavy wear, minor chipping, and some hairline cracks. No wood has been added or restored. A very important and early American Jaeger rifle that clearly depicts the German roots of later "Kentucky" Longrifles. DMG
Accessories

Barrel Length 30 - 3/4"
Caliber/Bore .65 Rifled"


Lot Detail - (A) EARLY NEWLY DISCOVERED PRE-REVOLUTIONARY WAR AMERICAN FLINTLOCK JAEGER RIFLE. (morphyauctions.com)

Gus

 

[ekettenburg]

That was auctioned at Morphy's last November (2020). It's pretty clearly a restocked German rifle, imho judging by the carving style, probably late 1760s or 1770s restock. Lock is reconverted and box is a replacement, some other small work too I think but I'll have to go back and look at the auction listing. Pretty interesting rifle.

 

[Brokennock]

Awesome! Great post, thank you so much.
This is the kind of topic that keeps me coming back here.

 

[Art Caputo]

Thanks for the post…..Very interesting!
No signature/maker mentioned. Only an axe cartouche on a barrel flat. Anyone familiar with this mark?

 

[Mike Payne]

Very interesting rifle! Thanks for posting.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Unbridled pan on the Germanic lock.

Interesting small screw on the buttplate comb.

Single set trigger.

Swamped barrel, with adjustable sight, very nice.

So an excellent example of a Jaeger rifle stocked in America. So no reason an American rifleman in the AWI or even perhaps as mentioned by Bouquet in the F&I not to carry such a rifle.

LD

 

[excess650]

In the spring of '20 that rifle was on the table of one of Morphy's employees at a show (for sale).

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I agree with Eric's assessment. For another tantalizing factoid, in Rene Chartrand's book "French Military Arms and Armor in America" on page 57 he lists a 1660 inventory of arms in Chateau St. Louis in Quebec City. In that inventory are listed 84 matchlock muskets, 25 matchlock musket barrels, 10 pistols, and 37 rifled carbines such as they are. Now what the heck did they look like.

dave

 

[Artificer]

The earliest documentation on any large quantities of Rifles in the colonies I have ever heard of was from a letter Governor Dongan of New York wrote to the Governor of Pennsylvania. Thomas Dongan was Provincial Governor from 1683 - 1688 and as I recall the letter to the PA Governor was dated in the spring of 1687 or ’88, talking about how 10 percent of the Militia combined force at I think Albany the Spring/Summer before, had been armed with Rifles.

A few years ago I was actually able to find a copy of that letter from the PA archives, though I lost that information and other information I found out on that militia force when my old computer crashed. It seems that Militia Force numbered right at 5,500 men from other period accounts, so roughly that meant around 550 RIFLES in the hands of the assembled Militia. If Governor Dongan was correct about the percentage of Rifle armed Militia, that is just plain astonishing for both the number of Riflemen and the fact the Militia was formed in New York from there and surrounding states. Of course those almost certainly would have been Early English Flintlocks and not very similar to the American Rifles of the Mid to Late 18th century.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The earliest documentation on any large quantities of Rifles in the colonies I have ever heard of was from a letter Governor Dongan of New York wrote to the Governor of Pennsylvania. Thomas Dongan was Provincial Governor from 1683 - 1688 and as I recall the letter to the PA Governor was dated in the spring of 1687 or ’88, talking about how 10 percent of the Militia combined force at I think Albany the Spring/Summer before, had been armed with Rifles.

A few years ago I was actually able to find a copy of that letter from the PA archives, though I lost that information and other information I found out on that militia force when my old computer crashed. It seems that Militia Force numbered right at 5,500 men from other period accounts, so roughly that meant around 550 RIFLES in the hands of the assembled Militia. If Governor Dongan was correct about the percentage of Rifle armed Militia, that is just plain astonishing for both the number of Riflemen and the fact the Militia was formed in New York from there and surrounding states. Of course those almost certainly would have been Early English Flintlocks and not very similar to the American Rifles of the Mid to Late 18th century.

Gus

Well the first "surge" of significant Germanic immigrants was into New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, and it was in 1670. So...., you may be looking at Early Germanic flintlock rifles, quite possibly of the Jaeger pattern.

LD

 

[Eterry]

A very nice piece of history. What would the weight be of piece such as this?
I especially like the mention of the folding rear sights for increased range... not everyone used "Kentucky Windage ".

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Folks, I just tripped across this while looking for something else. Not sure if anyone had seen it previously or knows anything about it?


View attachment 93169


View attachment 93170

I can't speak to the accuracy of the write up from the link, but here it is:

"This rifle turned up in Western Pennsylvania, where it has remained for nearly 70 years. It has not been previously photographed, published, or offered publicly. For an example of a rifle with very similar relief carving, buttstock and comb architecture, and trigger guard finial, see rifle number 98 on pages 430 to 433 of "Volume II: Rifles of Colonial America" by George Shumway. The rifle shown in the book has extremely similar features and is signed "J.P. Beck", who began his gunsmithing career in 1772 or 1773, according to Shumway. He worked in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. Like this example, the rifle in the book also has an unusual original single-set trigger mechanism. The early heavily swamped octagonal barrel has deep eight groove rifling and a dovetailed silver front sight. One of the bottom flats is stamped with a sunken cartouche of an ax, towards the breech. The notched rear sight is in the German style and once has a folding leaf for longer distances mounted in front of the fixed sight. The early banana lockplate is Germanic in style and has three engraved lines near the tail as well as an unbridled pan. The Germanic brass furniture is cast and un-engraved. The buttplate has a three-stage stepped tang retained near the tip with a screw. The Jaeger-style trigger guard terminates with fleur-de-lis style finials ending with a ball at both ends. The trigger floorplate also mimics this design. The early ramrod ferrules have vase-and-ring turnings and the nosecap is retained to the barrel by a screw in the center of the ramrod channel. Nosecap is decorated with a wedding band. The sideplate shows Moravuian Christian Springs influence and has beveled edges and two moldings surrounded on each side by engraved lines. This early example was made without a toeplate. The full-length highly figured American maple stock shows very early form with a wide butt measuring 2-3/8" across the buttplate at the widest point. There is a sliding wooden patchbox on the right side, although the lid is an improper replacement and the four "C's" carved in front of it were added later. The left side features a molded relief cheekpiece with foliate scrolls on the left and a larger C-scroll with relief scrolls forming an "A" just as the J.P. Beck rifle in Shumway shows. There are also shaped relief panels around the lock and sideplate terminating in teardrop shapes at the back. There is a stylized relief shell design with incised decoration surrounding the barrel tang as well as relief carving around the comb. The ramrod is a contemporary replacement. For another example of a rifle with similar furniture, buttstock profile and carving, see the Johann Adolph Doll rifle on pages 67 - 76 of "Moravian Gunmaking II" by Robert Lienemann. The William Antes rifle on page 97 of "Moravian Gun Making of the Revolution" by the Kentucky Rifle Association and Kentucky Rifle Foundation has a nearly identical sideplate and similar carving, as well. CONDITION: Barrel retains a mostly brown surface and shows some wear and scratches. Lockplate is original but lock is a good professional reconversion, functions properly. Furniture shows scattered marks from use and some wear, retains a mustard patina. Foremost ramrod ferrule shows some denting. Stock retains a pleasing patina with much original dark finish in protected areas. Stock shows heavy wear, minor chipping, and some hairline cracks. No wood has been added or restored. A very important and early American Jaeger rifle that clearly depicts the German roots of later "Kentucky" Longrifles. DMG
Accessories

Barrel Length 30 - 3/4"
Caliber/Bore .65 Rifled"


Lot Detail - (A) EARLY NEWLY DISCOVERED PRE-REVOLUTIONARY WAR AMERICAN FLINTLOCK JAEGER RIFLE. (morphyauctions.com)

Gus

Thank you, really like seeing articles like this!

 

[Artificer]

One question I do have on this rifle is about that single set trigger.

Would it have been able to be fired both unset and set or just set only?

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Single, or for that matter double set triggers, would depend on whether it was double lever or single lever. One would have to either remove the triggers or have hands on experience.

 

[Artificer]

Single, or for that matter double set triggers, would depend on whether it was double lever or single lever. One would have to either remove the triggers or have hands on experience.

Yeah, I understand. I guess I'm wondering if double set single triggers were available when this rifle was made? I don't know how far back they go.

Gus

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Just out of curiosity, what happened to the weapons that the Hessian troops were armed with that were captured in battle? We're any of those Jaeger rifles?

 

[R.J.Bruce]

I guess the better question would be how many Jaeger Battalions were amongst the Hessians hired by the British to fight in North America?

And, what happened to any captured rifles?

Could the above-mentioned rifle be a re-stock of a damaged captured battle rifle?

 

[Artificer]

Just out of curiosity, what happened to the weapons that the Hessian troops were armed with that were captured in battle? We're any of those Jaeger rifles?

I don't know about other battles like Saratoga, but at Yorktown there was quite a bit of "dueling" between Jaeger armed Hessians and American Riflemen. The Hessian Riflemen gave as good as they got, btw. Their Jaeger rifles were surrendered along with other arms, but I have no idea where they went after that.

Gus

 

[ekettenburg]

It's certainly possible that the piece may be a restock of a captured and damaged German piece of the War-era. So it may be a pre-War piece, or it may be a piece restocked during the War itself. Or maybe even immediately after the War! Something to consider - and of course we can only speculate here - but the lock, barrel and furnishing pretty much dictate what the finished project is going to look like. In other words, while this rifle may have looked "old fashioned" in say 1785, at the same time, the larger and earlier furnishings, lock and barrel would surely look more than a bit weird if stocked for example as Peter Neihart's 1787 dated piece. So perhaps it is an early post-War piece and whoever restocked it, or paid to have it restocked, just figured "restock it like this busted up stock." To my eye, it looks like a rifle stocked up by someone copying a German rifle but not particularly familiar or proficient in stocking up rifles in that manner. The carving doesn't strike me as looking particularly early or 'classically trained,' either. In fact I believe someone over on ALR mentioned that the cheek carving in particular was a bit reminiscent of George Shroyer and I have to agree to some extent. I sure don't see JP Beck anywhere despite Morphy's going a bit overboard trying to draw that connection.

I also wonder if the trigger and plate mechanism is a later modification or addition because the stock shaping just around that location is atrocious and it looks like a 'rigged up' mod. Perhaps it was originally stocked with a double trigger mechanism, or just a plain single trigger and plate, and something was damaged or whatever and this (what appears to be a single set) was added. Could be a much later replacement too, this piece certainly has had a lot of more recent restoration work. Conversely, if it is original to the restocking, I think it may reinforce my speculation that whoever stocked it was not really familiar with this earlier style of stockwork.

 

[Artificer]

It's certainly possible that the piece may be a restock of a captured and damaged German piece of the War-era. So it may be a pre-War piece, or it may be a piece restocked during the War itself. Or maybe even immediately after the War! Something to consider - and of course we can only speculate here - but the lock, barrel and furnishing pretty much dictate what the finished project is going to look like. In other words, while this rifle may have looked "old fashioned" in say 1785, at the same time, the larger and earlier furnishings, lock and barrel would surely look more than a bit weird if stocked for example as Peter Neihart's 1787 dated piece. So perhaps it is an early post-War piece and whoever restocked it, or paid to have it restocked, just figured "restock it like this busted up stock." To my eye, it looks like a rifle stocked up by someone copying a German rifle but not particularly familiar or proficient in stocking up rifles in that manner. The carving doesn't strike me as looking particularly early or 'classically trained,' either. In fact I believe someone over on ALR mentioned that the cheek carving in particular was a bit reminiscent of George Shroyer and I have to agree to some extent. I sure don't see JP Beck anywhere despite Morphy's going a bit overboard trying to draw that connection.

I also wonder if the trigger and plate mechanism is a later modification or addition because the stock shaping just around that location is atrocious and it looks like a 'rigged up' mod. Perhaps it was originally stocked with a double trigger mechanism, or just a plain single trigger and plate, and something was damaged or whatever and this (what appears to be a single set) was added. Could be a much later replacement too, this piece certainly has had a lot of more recent restoration work. Conversely, if it is original to the restocking, I think it may reinforce my speculation that whoever stocked it was not really familiar with this earlier style of stockwork.

Very interesting!

Is it also possible the owner/customer wanted the re-stock more alike to then "current fashion/style" to what was then being currently made or even just changed to fit him better?

Gus