Non-Firing replica 1766 Charleville Infantry Musket

[Brokennock]

I keep forgetting that I have to spell out every little detail on this forum. "Not having an issue" refers to major failures, not hardening frizzens, venting barrels and tuning locks. I can't count how many TC, CVA, Traditions, and Pedersoli's I've had to work on to get them field ready because their factory warranty repair is so backed up, their repair will take months to complete if not longer. If you actually took the time to read back a few discussions, you would have been able to follow the course of the conversation much more closely. To twist things around with only half the conversation shows ignorance on your part. If you said this to me in person, you'd be picking yourself up off the deck son. Semper Fi.

I've read your whole discussion. Maybe you should read mine, as well as other people's.
To many people having to do lock work on a gun right out of the box is a major failure.
You don't have to spell anything out, you've made yourself and what kind if person you are plenty obvious, I only hope and pray you haven't bred more like you.

I can't count how many TC, CVA, Traditions, and Pedersoli's I've had to work on to get them field ready

Really? How many compared to India made guns total? How many that needed the work right out of the box compared to India made guns? How many "needed" it against how many were just better off with it?
I seriously doubt that the percentage of Pedersoli, TC, or Lyman guns truly needing that work is as high as the percentage of India made guns that truly need it.

Having a frizzen that needs hardening is not a terrible issue. It takes me about 15 minutes, my forge and some Cherry Red

Maybe you you this isn't major. That's all I was getting at. Not everyone has a forge, or access to one. Not everyone has the tools, knowledge/skills, or place, to do that kind of work.

You have shown you true colors, I wonder if your mom is proud,,,,, you certainly are a discredit to the Corp with who's motto you find it necessary to sign off with every post. I'll gladly say anything I've written here to your face,,,, just remember your the one who made it hostile.

 

[Brokennock]

It's sad Y'all can't admit when you're wrong or at least have a civil discussion without, "getting offended". I think it's time to move on.

Maybe you should take a look within here. You're the one who couldn't handle being questioned and started insulting and threatening people.
Maybe you should "move on." Anywhere.
But don't go away mad,,,, just go away.

 

[Carl.allen934]

And a six to nine months wait. For a savings of $150. I can get a musket and drill it myself and be shooting in 2 weeks.

Where do veterans Arms come from

 

[fireman1]

"snip"

The guy ain't worth your account brother.

 

[jd945043]

Gentleman it seems that there will be no consensus of agreement in this matter I guess we're all left with our own opinions however in the last 30 years I have had several Pedersoli several Dixie Gun works I think they were Japanese and other black powder firearms and all of them needed work at some time or another just because you've had trouble with some of yours from India doesn't mean that all of us have if that's the case then why are these companies always backlog and sold out I think you're barking up the wrong tree

 

[wganz]

Shop around , Armi sport 1842s go for 1000k.

Your price is at the highest possible

The humorous part of this whole tempest in a digital teapot is that when calling "the muzzleloader shop, ltd." to ask them about pricing on Loyalist Arms muskets, was talking to them and mentioned that I needed first to get an Armi Sport 1842 smoothbore for N-SSA. He said that the one he had in his shop just sold but will get another for me at about $1k.

So, looking for an Indian percussion musket lead me to a better deal on an Italian musket. Which leaves me with enough $$$ to buy both the Italian and Indian muskets.. Yeah, some in this thread are going to catch the vapors for sure and pass out then their family is going to try to sue me for the resultant heart attack......

 

[FlinterNick]

Gentleman it seems that there will be no consensus of agreement in this matter I guess we're all left with our own opinions however in the last 30 years I have had several Pedersoli several Dixie Gun works I think they were Japanese and other black powder firearms and all of them needed work at some time or another just because you've had trouble with some of yours from India doesn't mean that all of us have if that's the case then why are these companies always backlog and sold out I think you're barking up the wrong tree

Again try to read and comprehend…. Miroku CVA Armi and Pedersoli guns don’t often need work right out of the box. Indian guns need work as soon as you receive them … big difference.

Of course older muskets are going to need work.

Try to understand what’s being debated here or go on with believing your own hubris.

 

[jd945043]

Again try to read and comprehend…. Miroku CVA Armi and Pedersoli guns don’t often need work right out of the box. Indian guns need work as soon as you receive them … big difference.

Of course older muskets are going to need work.

Try to understand what’s being debated here or go on with believing your own hubris.

I have read it and I am stating that I have never had what people call Quality guns that didn't happen to need work on them to be reliable. The only ones I have had luck with are the Indian muskets. Which cost Way less for better quality. Pedersoli is ridiculously unreliable for the price from the four I have had. They are pure garbage until you put a decent Lock on them

 

[FlinterNick]

I have read it and I am stating that I have never had what people call Quality guns that didn't happen to need work on them to be reliable. The only ones I have had luck with are the Indian muskets. Which cost Way less for better quality. Pedersoli is ridiculously unreliable for the price from the four I have had. They are pure garbage until you put a decent Lock on them

Your failure to comprehend i understand now is by choice, not by lack intelligence.

Again, believing your own hubris.

 

[jd945043]

Your failure to comprehend i understand now is by choice, not by lack intelligence.

Again, believing your own hubris.

Feel free to believe as you wish.

 

[JackP]

I have a brand new Pedersoli 1777 AN IX and a 6 month old India made 1766 Charleville. The ped weight 1 1/4 pound more than the India 1766. The barrel bands fit was horrible on both. The inletting on the Ped around trigger guard is terrible. Inletting on the India made is great untill you remove the lock then the inletting is real rough. I decided after shooting my India musket for a while, too remove the breech plug. The threads are very rough and and way undersized which made it real loose. This concerned me so I made a new breech plug after rethreading the barrel in a lathe. It had maybe 50% thread at best now it is has proably 90% though 75% would be enough. I worry about the wood on the India as to wheather it will hold up. The Ped has a beautiful walnut stock, the best wood of any gun I own. The Ped weight a ton and will be difficult to carry for long while the India made is lighter and more comfortable to carry and shoulder.

I now like the India musket and I think is is safe to shoot. Would I buy it if I had to do it over again? No, that was a lot of work. Would I buy the Ped now? probably not if I new it weighed 1 lb more than avertized.

My sons, grandsons and I enjoy shooting them, so I'm glad I have them. Kinda keeps the family together.

Seems they all have their problems.

Jack

 

[FlinterNick]

People engaging in the Indian musket debate.

I have a brand new Pedersoli 1777 AN IX and a 6 month old India made 1766 Charleville. The ped weight 1 1/4 pound more than the India 1766. The barrel bands fit was horrible on both. The inletting on the Ped around trigger guard is terrible. Inletting on the India made is great untill you remove the lock then the inletting is real rough. I decided after shooting my India musket for a while, too remove the breech plug. The threads are very rough and and way undersized which made it real loose. This concerned me so I made a new breech plug after rethreading the barrel in a lathe. It had maybe 50% thread at best now it is has proably 90% though 75% would be enough. I worry about the wood on the India as to wheather it will hold up. The Ped has a beautiful walnut stock, the best wood of any gun I own. The Ped weight a ton and will be difficult to carry for long while the India made is lighter and more comfortable to carry and shoulder.

I now like the India musket and I think is is safe to shoot. Would I buy it if I had to do it over again? No, that was a lot of work. Would I buy the Ped now? probably not if I new it weighed 1 lb more than avertized.

My sons, grandsons and I enjoy shooting them, so I'm glad I have them. Kinda keeps the family together.

Seems they all have their problems.

Jack

Bobby Hoyt did tell me about an Indian barrel he refused to work on because the breech wasn’t threaded correctly. He said there were gas leaks evident by burn marks in the threads. He also said there was an issue with how it was tapered.

I have to be honest I don’t fully understand how a barrels taper could affect its integrity, he said it had something to do with it being too thick in the middle and muzzle and too thin in the breech, and that the pressure isn’t evenly distributed when its fired.

He ended up making a new barrel for the gun owner.

Well, I’ve seen worse stocks made of birch, oak and mahogany. While teak is not ideal, it can have a pleasant grain to it, however the Indian gun dealers are not trying to use quality cuts of wood, they’re using surplus wood that is cheap.

I’ve seen some Indian stocks from Veteran arms that looked like they were dry rotted, so brittle that it literally shattered like glass. One Springfield and a one bess.

As for pedersoli guns and their inletting, iv’e seen some with some over cut parts, i do own one with a slightly over cut tang inlet, i remedied that with epoxy bedding and moving the barrel back.

I’ve also defarbed many pedersoli guns, reworking stocks and removing manufactures markings even restocked them at the customer’s request for a more historical accurate pattern.

Otherwise the mechanical properties of pedersoli muskets are unmatched by Indian made arms. Their locks are far better, made with higher quality parts, and appropriately conditioned. I’ve only had to reharden one pedersoli frizzen in 10 years and and it saw an incredible amount of use. Pedersoli even discloses this on their website that frizzens will deprecate with use.
Their barrels are deep drilled from 4150 bar stock, which i believe is the highest quality gun BP barrels on the market today. They are superior to barrels made in the USA with 12L14 steel or 8620 steel or even British en28 or en42.

 

[cebusey]

I have read it and I am stating that I have never had what people call Quality guns that didn't happen to need work on them to be reliable. The only ones I have had luck with are the Indian muskets. Which cost Way less for better quality. Pedersoli is ridiculously unreliable for the price from the four I have had. They are pure garbage until you put a decent Lock on them

The one Pedersoli I have owned was the worst BP arm I have ever owned and was unsafe out of the box due to the fact that the cock could release by itself from half or full cock. I have a CVA that needed it's frizzen hardened and lock internals polished before I was able to get a halfway decent spark. The bore was off center as well. Another CVA worked perfectly. My one Loyalist Indian flintlock works perfectly and has done so for over 20 years and is the most accurate of the bunch. Condemning all products from any source is unsound at best. My next reproduction purchase will likely be Indian.

 

[FlinterNick]

The one Pedersoli I have owned was the worst BP arm I have ever owned and was unsafe out of the box due to the fact that the cock could release by itself from half or full cock. I have a CVA that needed it's frizzen hardened and lock internals polished before I was able to get a halfway decent spark. The bore was off center as well. Another CVA worked perfectly. My one Loyalist Indian flintlock works perfectly and has done so for over 20 years and is the most accurate of the bunch. Condemning all products from any source is unsound at best. My next reproduction purchase will likely be Indian.

So what did you do with your defective pedersoli and CVA guns?

Both are double warranted by the manufacturer and distributor.

BTW i only advocate purchasing Indian made arms from Loyalist Arms, they do have a good quality control system.

 

[cebusey]

So what did you do with your defective pedersoli and CVA guns?

Both are double warranted by the manufacturer and distributor.

BTW i only advocate purchasing Indian made arms from Loyalist Arms, they do have a good quality control system.

Neither CVA or Pedersoli had any interest in either replacing or repairing the firearms. I hardened the frizzen and polished the internals of the CVA - nothing I can do about the off center bore. I still have it. The Pedersoli - I had to deepen the half cock sear notch, reshape/widen the full cock sear notch and reshape the trigger bar and replace the sear spring as well as polish the internals. It worked well and safely after that and I sold it after about 10 years of use.

 

[Newtire]

Hey now! I was big stuff wheeling my Pinto back in High School!

Hah ha. I had a Pinto too! The 2.0 L motor was a great one but not much could be said for the rest of it. Still, it got me back and forth to & from work for over 5 years with only one small glitch. 100 miles per day! Never seen one on fire like the Volkswagen bugs and buses used to be seen. Look how people loved those things. Noone sued those guys. Everything has its fan club. P.I.N.T.O=Push Into Ocean. Liked mine anyway.

 

[FlinterNick]

Neither CVA or Pedersoli had any interest in either replacing or repairing the firearms. I hardened the frizzen and polished the internals of the CVA - nothing I can do about the off center bore. I still have it. The Pedersoli - I had to deepen the half cock sear notch, reshape/widen the full cock sear notch and reshape the trigger bar and replace the sear spring as well as polish the internals. It worked well and safely after that and I sold it after about 10 years of use.

Hmmm well you have returned it to CVA or Pedersoli, you would have returned it directly to the distributor you purchased it from.

Cabellas, Dixie Gun Works, Taylors… etc. they warranty those purchases.

I’ve returned several Pedersoli’s to Dixie and Taylors and both had either fully refunded or replaced the gun.

If you purchased the gun used, well the manufacturers warranty will have limitations for you, as most of those warranties rely on the original owner’s gun registration with the company.

Regardless, Indian guns out of the box often need work, way more often than not.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

People engaging in the Indian musket debate.


Bobby Hoyt did tell me about an Indian barrel he refused to work on because the breech wasn’t threaded correctly. He said there were gas leaks evident by burn marks in the threads. He also said there was an issue with how it was tapered.

I have to be honest I don’t fully understand how a barrels taper could affect its integrity, he said it had something to do with it being too thick in the middle and muzzle and too thin in the breech, and that the pressure isn’t evenly distributed when its fired.

He ended up making a new barrel for the gun owner.

Well, I’ve seen worse stocks made of birch, oak and mahogany. While teak is not ideal, it can have a pleasant grain to it, however the Indian gun dealers are not trying to use quality cuts of wood, they’re using surplus wood that is cheap.

I’ve seen some Indian stocks from Veteran arms that looked like they were dry rotted, so brittle that it literally shattered like glass. One Springfield and a one bess.

As for pedersoli guns and their inletting, iv’e seen some with some over cut parts, i do own one with a slightly over cut tang inlet, i remedied that with epoxy bedding and moving the barrel back.

I’ve also defarbed many pedersoli guns, reworking stocks and removing manufactures markings even restocked them at the customer’s request for a more historical accurate pattern.

Otherwise the mechanical properties of pedersoli muskets are unmatched by Indian made arms. Their locks are far better, made with higher quality parts, and appropriately conditioned. I’ve only had to reharden one pedersoli frizzen in 10 years and and it saw an incredible amount of use. Pedersoli even discloses this on their website that frizzens will deprecate with use.
Their barrels are deep drilled from 4150 bar stock, which i believe is the highest quality gun BP barrels on the market today. They are superior to barrels made in the USA with 12L14 steel or 8620 steel or even British en28 or en42.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I'd say you fellows have successfully RUNN OFT The Colonial Rifle Smitty.

 

[fireman1]

The humorous part of this whole tempest in a digital teapot is that when calling "the muzzleloader shop, ltd." to ask them about pricing on Loyalist Arms muskets, was talking to them and mentioned that I needed first to get an Armi Sport 1842 smoothbore for N-SSA. He said that the one he had in his shop just sold but will get another for me at about $1k.
View attachment 195239

So, looking for an Indian percussion musket lead me to a better deal on an Italian musket. Which leaves me with enough $$$ to buy both the Italian and Indian muskets.. Yeah, some in this thread are going to catch the vapors for sure and pass out then their family is going to try to sue me for the resultant heart attack......
View attachment 195240

Sometimes it's better to lucky than good.