Load for Uberti Walker Revolver

[nightwolf1974]

Looking into buying a Uberti "Colt" Walker revolver, but can't any consistent loading data for 3F powder charges with .454 round balls.

Any ideas for a "safe" load to make it potent like the originals were? I mean, you buy a Walker because it was the magnum of it's day.

 

[TNGhost]

So, my copy of the Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual, by Sam Fadala, copyright 1982, lists a max load of 55 grains of 3f black powder for 1205 fps and a muzzle energy of 455 ft. lbs. And a load of 57 grains of Pyrodex P for 1215 fps and 1215 ft. lbs of muzzle energy. Pretty potent if you ask me.

Then there is this:



He says the original 60 grain load, as specified by Colt, is/was not recommended in the originals by the Army(they did have some issues of destroyed cylinders). Well those original Colt Walkers were made of iron and not modern ordnance steel, so I am not sure there is a correlation with modern repros to that aviso.

Then there is this:

 

[bang]

First I think you should consider a .457 ball. It will provide a larger driving band which is better for the higher powder charges.
I've used as low as 40 grains and had good results. The 60 grain charge is considered the optimal for range of 100 yards. Using 60 it should hit at 5 inches high at 25 yards per the sighting set up.
As with any open top check the arbor fit and make any adjustments needed.

 

[Grenadier1758]

By the way, the loads Sam Fadala suggested in the "Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual" were volume loads.

 

[nkbj]

One of my favorites is RCBS #45-225-CAV (see below) with the rear band sized to slip into the chambers.
Having big lube grooves the bullet is long and thereby imposes its own limitation on powder charges much as did the original bullet design.


The Ideal / Lyman #45266 bevel base SWC is another good one. The rounded tip of the SWC nose fits the loading ram and the generous bevel on the base makes fitting into the chambers a breeze. These bullet designs displace quite a bit of powder space but hey, so did the bullets the revolver was engineered to use.

 

[nightwolf1974]

First I think you should consider a .457 ball. It will provide a larger driving band which is better for the higher powder charges.
I've used as low as 40 grains and had good results. The 60 grain charge is considered the optimal for range of 100 yards. Using 60 it should hit at 5 inches high at 25 yards per the sighting set up.
As with any open top check the arbor fit and make any adjustments needed.

Well the description on the gun says ".454", and I'll be using Wonder Wads.

 

[TNGhost]

Well the description on the gun says ".454", and I'll be using Wonder Wads.

The reason bang says that, is not to seal the chamber, it is that a larger diameter ball, will provide a longer bearing surface for more contact with the rifling as the ball goes down the barrel, making less chance for it to "skip" across the grooves and impair accuracy, a possible effect of heavier, higher velocity charges. Wonder Wads won't help this, if it becomes a problem. nkbj's use of bullets follows this same line of thinking.

A side affect of using the .457 ball though, is going to be the difficulty of loading and the additional stress and strain on the loading lever if you load with the cylinder on the gun (if you load the cylinder in a stand off the gun, no problem) It is a solution I would keep in my pocket if you experience poor accuracy and or leading with the smaller diameter ball.

As far as powerful vs safe, any handgun is going to last longer and stay in better shape suing lighter loads. Case in point are the magnum revolvers, feed them a steady diet of top end loads and they will get loose, same with the Walker. I have no doubt 60 grains is safe, but I also have no doubt that top end loads like that will wear it faster. I have a S&W 29 that as a back up for hunting dangerous game I use a 300 gr HP over a stiff charge. For plinking or competition I use a light 240 grain LSWC.44 Special loading, as I have no doubt the 300 grainers are going to beat on it.

Its like owning a fast car and not driving it to the limit all the time, to save on repair bills, but knowing the power is there if and when you need it.

 

[nkbj]

Wish somebody made a .44 mold design that was like two round balls stuck together, maybe 2/3's or so of an inch long. Then you'd have the round backside that is so good for accuracy, a lube groove, round nose and a little more weight. Win-win-win.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Looking into buying a Uberti "Colt" Walker revolver, but can't any consistent loading data for 3F powder charges with .454 round balls.

nightwolf, Uberti's instruction manual for its black powder revolvers includes a table of recommended charges for their calibers .31, .36, and .44, rather than by specific model. For Round Ball Diameter .454"/457" the "Standard" charge is 22 grains, "Maximum" charge is 30 grains. Grain size is not given. The text adds "yields chamber pressure which is well below maximum safe levels," and "The full maximum charge is seldom used except for hunting or 'showing off'." Good choice on the Wonder Wads.

 

[nightwolf1974]

My original intent was to shoot the Walker with a 40 or 50 grain load....NEVER at the 60 grain load of 3F.

 

[nkbj]

It's a humdinger of a gun. As a means of comparison, the original bullets were approximately equal in shape and mass to what was standardized a while later for the Colt 1911. And with the bullet taking up so much "powder space" the performance was approximately the same. It's just a formula tried out on many a brave lad and found to work.

Hmm, got a 225 grain .45 mold with a huge hollow point. I should try out expansion tests someday just for grins.

 

[TheGrayRider]

Could you fire 2 .457 balls at once from a Walker? With day 40-45 grains in it?

 

[lone pine]

just bought a uberti walker. looking forward to trying it out. maybe .50 grains with a .457 ball.

 

[rodwha]

First off the stretching of the wedge and arbor are an Uberti issue, and it’s not limited to the Walker but affects all of their percussion Colt models. It’s not a Walker thing.

Colt only stated to back down on the full charge of powder because cylinders were rupturing from time to time, and it wasn’t known if it was the stout charge (which isn’t all that stout if using 2F if that’s what was used), or if it was due to the new pointy conicals that didn’t load easily so they were inserted backwards creating a shaped charge. And then there was the question of metallurgy.

The lever dropping seems to be an easy fix by filing the profile as of the latch. They used a leather thing to help keep it up, they didn’t reduce their loads to do so…

I noted that it took roughly 42.5 grns of 3F Goex to achieve what it took 60 grn of 2F to produce, and this is a weak powder. Strange.

I find it rather odd he looked for a good load in such a short range, especially vacating anything resembling what we tend to hear in repros eating Xs with less than half a chamber full. But then the whole restricting a Walker seems rather odd. Might as well have bought a Dragoon, or if your max charge is just going to be 40 grains get the ‘60. Or you could just address the issue of the short arbor and do what it was meant for.

Uberti’s published data is different than when I emailed them about their pathetic maximum loads. Then it stated how with modern metallurgy the modern guns aren’t as weak as the originals. I asked how it was that their stronger steel couldn’t even accept half of the maximum charges. They never replied but they certainly changed what’s been written.

And to be honest recommending 30 grns as a max and not ensuring there’s filler to get the ball into that powder charge seems pretty odd to me. Maybe 30 grns and a gap isn’t enough to create an issue, but we all have read it’s a BIG no no to not ensure there’s no gap.

 

[Dude]

Another issue with the Uberti Walker is the cylinders are undersize. Because of that, chamber volume only allows about 45 grains max charge. Reaming the chambers up to .002" over bore increases volume enabling loading 60 grains and increases accuracy.

 

[Dickydalton]

Another issue with the Uberti Walker is the cylinders are undersize. Because of that, chamber volume only allows about 45 grains max charge. Reaming the chambers up to .002" over bore increases volume enabling loading 60 grains and increases accuracy.

I have two of them and they both hold 60, but I usually load 55 and a wad. Check your measure.

 

[D Yager]

Agree with @Dickydalton. The chambers can be opened up to .453, same as Ruger Old Army. This gets you into a .457 size ball. My personal preferred bullet is a 200 grain semi wadcutter. I need to check on the powder charge with the 200 grn bullet.

 

[nkbj]

The old Lyman / Ideal #45266 bevel base semi-wadcutter was pretty good in a Walker. The RCBS 45-220-CAV design (below) worked well also when the rear bands were swaged down small enough to slip into the chambers.

 

[M. De Land]

The reason bang says that, is not to seal the chamber, it is that a larger diameter ball, will provide a longer bearing surface for more contact with the rifling as the ball goes down the barrel, making less chance for it to "skip" across the grooves and impair accuracy, a possible effect of heavier, higher velocity charges. Wonder Wads won't help this, if it becomes a problem. nkbj's use of bullets follows this same line of thinking.

A side affect of using the .457 ball though, is going to be the difficulty of loading and the additional stress and strain on the loading lever if you load with the cylinder on the gun (if you load the cylinder in a stand off the gun, no problem) It is a solution I would keep in my pocket if you experience poor accuracy and or leading with the smaller diameter ball.

As far as powerful vs safe, any handgun is going to last longer and stay in better shape suing lighter loads. Case in point are the magnum revolvers, feed them a steady diet of top end loads and they will get loose, same with the Walker. I have no doubt 60 grains is safe, but I also have no doubt that top end loads like that will wear it faster. I have a S&W 29 that as a back up for hunting dangerous game I use a 300 gr HP over a stiff charge. For plinking or competition I use a light 240 grain LSWC.44 Special loading, as I have no doubt the 300 grainers are going to beat on it.

Its like owning a fast car and not driving it to the limit all the time, to save on repair bills, but knowing the power is there if and when you need it.

That's generally true for production guns with the exception of the Ruger Redhawks. I once read a 20K max load torture test with four different shooters going at it in relays. After the 20K of max loads the gun was thoroughly spec'd out and the author said all that occurred was a smoothing of the lock works and trigger pull. I bought one and am impressed with it.
I am curious to see how well my Uberti Walker stands up to full power loads as that's all I ever intend to shoot in it!