Noone Is Authentic!

[ol vern]

Well said Mr. Brooks! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[john1964]

Ah...ya.

Like I said, I'll take it from here.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ah...ya.

Like I said, I'll take it from here.

Good idea. :applause:

 

[john1964]

It's not like I have a viable option.

:rotf:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It's not like I have a viable option.

:rotf:

:shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2: :cursing:
I have a few extra letters behind my name (they are useful tools, nothing more) and work every day with people who have more letters and realize that they do not set them up above anyone else. Perhaps the problem is the "free ride" you received on your way to the degree? Now, you may have earned it, I don’t know nor do I care, but not having to work to get the wherewithal to earn what you want can be a bad habit young man, and you have more than shown that. Please do not insult the people who have offered you help on your way up to your goal ”“ should you fall (and you undoubtedly will!), the trip back up will be much less pleasant stepping in all of the “arrogance” you left behind the first time”¦

 

[Okwaho]

It would be for personal use, mostly targeting. But that should not change the requirements regarding its authenticity.

Please re-read my last post, the other answers you seek are already there.

Well!I guess that tells me what.I wondered about the possibility of your being a reenactor and likely one portraying a Mohawk given your location in the Mohawk Valley area.I also assumed you might be doing such an impression since you have chosen the user name "Sachem" which refers to an eastern woodland Indian chief and in particular the Chief of a confederation of the Algonquin tribes of the North Atlantic coast.If you are not Native and have taken the user name of "Sachem"then such use is insulting and offensive to Natives generally and the Algonquins of the New England area in particular.

I wondered at your use of the word "poignant" to describe a question on firearms.I have used and seen the term "pertinent" in such situations but never "poignant".How does "poignancy" apply to firearms?

As stated by Mike Brooks,I like others am seeking answers as much as guidelines to enable us to correctly answer your questions. As to the types of guns which would be authentic to the 1755-1774 time frame in the Mohawk Valley ,without knowing more than you told us other than that you don't want a musket and plan on "personal use mostly targeting {?}, here are the guns which would be appropriate for the time and place given the diversity of those who would have carried them
1.Hudson Valley fowlers
2.New England fowlers
3.French fusils de chasse,Tulle et al
4.French fusils fin de chasse,Tulle et al
5.French Tulle common and grenadier muskets
6.English 1745 Lord Loudon light infantry carbines
7.English 1756 light infantry carbines
8.Early English{pre-rev}gentleman's fowlers
9.English trade guns {Carolina/Type G}
10.Composite American fusil muskets {1750-1777}
11.Dutch and Liegeois trade guns
There were probably one or more I haven't listed but these are the ones I think would have been the most used.

Responding to questions such as yours, posited as it were in the aura of academia,is not an easy task but given the lack of viable information furnished this is about the best I can do.As the late great Jerry Clower once opined, "Some folks are just educated beyond their intelligience.
Tom Patton,{B.S.,S.J.D ,thanks to the Korean G.I. Bill}aka Okwaho

 

[john1964]

Hi Tom,

Thank you very much for your list.

To aid further, I would seek something English, perhaps Dutch. And again, no military muskets.

A rifle used, again as stated before, at the Battle of Lake George or Fort Niagara by one of the Johnson's non-Indian combatants would be ideal.

Obviously, given the nature of the "industry" at the time, one could still have several options, some of which you list - again, thank you.

Take care,
john

 

[roundball]

Mike B.,
I received a full ride scholarship to undertake a PhD. at the University of Pittsburgh.
Why would you care? Because I have had the opportunity to digest large amounts of information over many years. I have extensively researched any number of topics in the context of the competitive environment found at that scholastic level.

GENERAL OBSERVATION ABOUT HUMAN DYNAMICS

It is amazing to me the number of people who find it necessary to call attention to something they perceive as some sort of special credential...whether waving around a PHD, or that they've jumped out of airplanes, used to teach firearms safety, written books, have a muzzleloading website, etc, all in the context of establishing that what they're saying should make others sit up and take notice.

Unfortunately that goes in the category of:
:bull:

The arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude is so obvious in these people it's laughable, but folks here try to help them anyway, and without fail the thread tanks because the original poster gets egg on his face, and we all know ego trumps humility.

Thought for the day:
When someone finds it necessary to reach for a "prop" to try and get people to accept their views, it's already too[url] late...in[/url] fact, it's counter-productive.

:thumbsup:

 

[john1964]

Great point, I couldn't agree more.
:bow:

So how about we get back to topics regarding blackpowder firearms.

 

[roundball]

That post given some of the posts in this thread is truly laughable.

Great point, I couldn't agree more.
:bow:

Your response makes my point...you've just dug your hole deeper...need to brush up on your reading & comprehension skills.

 

[john1964]

Truly an enlightened bunch. Somehow, it fits.

 

[Halftail]

This seems to me like a good ol'fashoned pi$$ing contest.
Phew......Stinky! :youcrazy:

 

[Mike Brooks]

To aid further, I would seek something English, perhaps Dutch.

So, just what exactly are you seeking here? Do you want us to point you directly to a specific gun and say "Here this is exactly what you need to buy"? That's easy enough if that's what you want. Your requests are so vague it's difficult to figure out exactly what you expect us to do for you. I've already asked you these several questions previously, but for some reason you refuse to answer them, which makes this task you have set for us difficult to accomplish. Here are the questions that need answered again for you to help us in your quest for historical authenticity:
1)Are you looking for a finished gun?
2) Are you looking for a kit?
3) will you, or somebody else be putting this kit together?
4 exactly what is you "persona"? It will make a huge difference and narrow down the choices of the guns this person would have carried. (German , English, wealthy, poor, old, young, etc.)
5)What is your price range?
If english guns are what you're interested in ,I've already suggested an english fowler which I guess you just blew off for some reason.... Tom has suggested it again in his most thorough and excellent list. He has as well listed the English carolina gun, as well as various lesser grade english guns for the indian trade.
Dutch? They were making some fowlers for the colonial trade, but the english fowling guns were probably more common. The Hudson Valley Fowler, although a colonial american made gun, has taken it's styling from dutch wild fowling guns of the late 17th and early 18th century. If you were to carry a gun like that your persona would be very area specific as the distinctive style of these guns was only seen in the Hudson River valley.

A rifle used, again as stated before, at the Battle of Lake George or Fort Niagara by one of the Johnson's non-Indian combatants would be ideal.

So, it's a rifle you really have your heart set on? You Should have said that in the first palce and saved us alot of trouble. Rifles are often mentioned on a regular basis in documents from the 1740's and earlier, but we have no surviving examples untill about 1761. Anything before the date of 1761 is pure speculation as to what it may or may not have looked like. We have some very educated guesses as to what they may have looked like but no concret evidence . If you're looking for something of colonial manufacture you should look for something brass mounted, large calibered (.54 and up)and a 38" to 48" barrel with a buttplate at least 2" wide. If you're looking for something of continental manufacture you might consider a german hunting rifle with a barrel less than 32" long and around .62 caliber and stocked in euro walnut. There aren't many rifle options past those two.
Now, just because you've done your research, and decided what gun you want, doesn't mean it's even available in today's market. Most of what is on the market isn't correct for a F&I war representation.

 

[Blivetmaker]

Hey Roundball,
You may just have (inadvertantly) come up with the ultimate persona! The time traveller! You mentioned your TC flinter anno 1970. Just suppose human ingenuity makes time travel a reality. It follows that shortly thereafter ECONOMY CLASS time travel would be invented. I can hear the anxious tourist just before he gets in the time machine; "Is this thing really PC?" The technician answers "NOT YET!!!" :shocked2:

 

[roundball]

Hey Roundball,
You may just have (inadvertantly) come up with the ultimate persona! The time traveller! You mentioned your TC flinter anno 1970. Just suppose human ingenuity makes time travel a reality. It follows that shortly thereafter ECONOMY CLASS time travel would be invented. I can hear the anxious tourist just before he gets in the time machine; "Is this thing really PC?" The technician answers "NOT YET!!!" :shocked2:

:thumbsup:
Right on...never any arguements about their authenticy and I never make them out to be more than they are...they fire every time they're supposed to, hit what I aim at, and the shiny brass looks good in the deer photos!!
:rotf:

 

[CrackStock]

I would direct you to Merrill Linday's
The New England Gun.

It is an older reference, so there may have been more recent work done, but this resource can get you started in looking at options for that area. Besides, it is a good book with pictures of interesting guns.

As to builders, you might need to shop around.
Most of the ones that I know are pretty busy at the moment.

CS

 

[Okwaho]

If what you want is a rifle then you have a problem just as I had 21 years ago when I decided that I needed a rifle for F&I and Rev War.The problem is that there were then as now no virtually no kits out there and a finished custom made rifle will cost in the neighborhood of $2500-3,500 with a turn around of about 1-2 years. I wound up with probably the first semi custom Edward Marshall rifle with all the bells and whistles. That same gun today would run about $3500-$4,500. The absolute BEST kits on the market today are those put out by Jim Chambers,[url] www.flintlocks.com[/url] These are not cheap and require professional assembly.He offers both rifles and fowlers but they are the very best out there.I know Mike has assembled several and I know he will agree with me.If I were going to get a rifle of that era, I would go their web site and contact Barbie Chambers who is handling the kits now and if you wish also talk to Jim and ask his advice. I have known him for 21 years and you can rely on what he says.The guns are plain with any carving or patchbox optional at extra cost.There are many builders out there and a lot of them are very good including our own Mike Brooks.If you want a fowler then Jim has a couple of good ones and there is at least one French fusil kit elsewhere I can in good concience recommend based on 9 years of extensive and intensive research on early French and English guns although I generally defer to Mike on the English fowlers.
Tom Patton

 

[mikelange]

Semi-rhetorical question:

If the people on this forum aren't interested in helping someone find his answers, why would they waste time responding with a whole round of other questions regarding specific details (nature of the questioner's persona, finances, etc), then returning time and again to the thread to be updated on what idiots the inquirer considers them to be? Be easier to say, "Get a Traditions Pennsylvania -- Donal Logue used one in 'The Patriot' and the Revolution was only twenty-some-odd years after the F&I War, so it has to be PC! Buh-bye!"

I love to share my pitiful store of knowledge, and to add to it -- hence my returning way too often to this forum -- but I have a very short fuse when it comes to someone patronizing and/or bad-mouthing me. Some of you guys have the patience of saints. :hatsoff:

 

[kentucky bucky]

Mike B.,
I received a full ride scholarship to undertake a PhD. at the University of Pittsburgh.
Why would you care? Because I have had the opportunity to digest large amounts of information over many years. I have extensively researched any number of topics in the context of the competitive environment found at that scholastic level.

GENERAL OBSERVATION ABOUT HUMAN DYNAMICS

It is amazing to me the number of people who find it necessary to call attention to something they perceive as some sort of special credential...whether waving around a PHD, or that they've jumped out of airplanes, used to teach firearms safety, written books, have a muzzleloading website, etc, all in the context of establishing that what they're saying should make others sit up and take notice.

Unfortunately that goes in the category of:
:bull:

The arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude is so obvious in these people it's laughable, but folks here try to help them anyway, and without fail the thread tanks because the original poster gets egg on his face, and we all know ego trumps humility.

Thought for the day:
When someone finds it necessary to reach for a "prop" to try and get people to accept their views, it's already too[url] late...in[/url] fact, it's counter-productive.

:thumbsup:

That PHD ain't nothing! I've got one of them in the garage.


(post hole digger) :hmm:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Some of you guys have the patience of saints.

Nah, I'm just playing along with Claude's rules of a "kinder , more gentle board." :v If I wasn't behaving like a gentleman, I'd have been kicked off shortly after I recieved the first round of insults. :winking:
What keeps me going, is I'm actually curious as to what Mr. Sachmo's question really is, I figure if I keep giving various answers he'll finally tell me when I've stumbled across the correct answer to his vague question. Kind of a backwards way to get information, but then again, I don't have a Ph.D. to brag about either. :winking: