Number 13

[Zonie]

When I bought my used GPR I got several things along with it. One of these was a new bottle of TC Number 13 bore cleaner.

I always use dish soap and water to clean my guns and today after cleaning the barrel on my new Tennessee rifle the usual way, I thought to myself "Why not try some of that cleaner?"

It's been some time sense I got so really upset so rapidly.

After running a patch wetted with Number 13 up and down the barrel several times, I ran a water soaked patch down and up. Brown. Well, not actually brown, rust brown! :cursing:
Running several more water soaked patches served as good proof that the rust this stuff creates is not easy to remove.

I did finally get the bore back to a clean unrusted condition by using Stumpys Moose Juice (Milk).
For those not familure with Stumpys patch lube, it contains Castor Oil which it deposits on the metal surface. The oil prevents reoccuring of the rusting.

I know some of you are about to jump on the "reply" button to tell me to stop using that crappy Pyrodex, but in this case I had used Swiss FFFg powder.

I suppose what actually happened is that the Number 13 did such a great job of removing all forms of rust protection that the bore flash rusted.
Before making this post, I ran a Search for "Number 13" and up popped Stumpys extensive test of various lubes/cleaners. Sure enough, ole Number 13 rusted his sample right off the bat! I should have remembered.

I don't know what Polymethylsiloxane is, but that is what Number 13 is made with.
I do know I wouldn't use it in one of my enemys guns. :cursing:

 

[roundball]

I keep a jar of patches wet with #13 on hand if for some reason something happens at the range and I need to wipe the bore, and I used it occasionally on an unusually dry, low humidity day...before I discovered Hoppes No9 Plus.

I also carry patches wet with #13 in small ziploc bags when hunting for a thorough field cleaning after a shot...but I don't trust anything for a final complete rifle cleaning more than steaming hot soapy water & a hot water rinse.

 

[mbw907]

Zonie, thanks for posting the comments on #13 cleaner. That very same thing happened to me with a .45 percussion pistol. Boy was I mad whenever I saw it later on and it was brown with rust. I disassembled it and scrubbed everything out with some solvent and lubed it up good and added another product to my "Never Again" list. I thought Thompson/center would have a safe product that would not harm your gun. Hope others heed your warning. Thanks Again!!!!!

 

[playfarmers]

I tried #13 once 15 years ago, and gave the bottle away.

 

[riverrat43]

I ran in to the same thing with #13...flash rust out the ying yang. Now I use Lehigh as a lube and a cleaner at the range. I also keep a small bottle of it with me while hunting for a quick clean up in the field. Once back home, it's soap and water.

 

[roundball]

I don't know what Polymethylsiloxane is, but that is what Number 13 is made with.

Google lookup on Dimethylsiloxane explains it, also lists SYNONYMS as:

PDMS
Dimethylsiloxane
Silicone
Silicone oil
Dimethylpolysiloxane
E 900

 

[Old Ironsights]

Since I use Stainless guns, things might work different for me, but here's what I use: (Assuming Pre-lubed or Teflon patches)

Feild: Denatured Alcohol & Water - small bottle of CLP for oiling.

Home: Water, Denatured alcohol, WD40 & RIG. (Without RIG I will surface-rust the Stainless) :shocked2:

 

[jdixon]

Interesting - I use Number 13 from time to time but always in conjunction with Ballistol. I have not had the rusting experience yet. Anyway - here is a link describing Polydimethylsiloxane.

http://apps.kemi.se/flodessok/floden/kemamne_Eng/polydimetyl_eng.htm

Looks like the stuff is used in everything from cleaning muzzleloaders to defoaming beer - who knew!

 

[Zonie]

I think there must be something in that bottle besides a silicone oil. I wouldn't think that, by itself would create the flash rusting I was seeing. Maybe it's the Colorado River Water we folks in Phoenix get. Or it might be that most of the water in Phoenix comes from the Salt River?

No, using plain old Phoenix water and soap doesn't rust my barrels. Gotta be one of the "FDA Food Grade Rated" things.

Defoamer in my beer? Boy, I sure hope it don't rust my interior plumbing like it did my barrel!

Anyway, I might save this stuff for times that I've run out of Browning solution. :rotf:
One things for sure, it ain't going into the bore of any of my barrels again. :cursing:

 

[roundball]

I wonder if TC's intention for it's use has any dependency on Natural Lube 1000 being used as a bore lube...because I have to say, I've used the stuff since the early 90's and have never seen anything like you're describing...now again, I don't use it as the actual, final barrel cleaning agent and maybe that's the difference...dunno.

But even at that, no idea why it would cause rust in a bore...even if #13 was used as the final cleaning agent, bores would then be lubed to prevent rust, no matter what was used to clean it...doesn't make sense to me

 

[wszumera]

I read somewhere, maybe even on this board, that under the 'seasoning' of a barrel can be a layer of rust forming.

It is possible that No13 got under the seasoning and revealed a layer of rust?

Clutch

 

[bob1961]

i use no# 13 fer between shot cleaning with no rust after cleaning....i use hot water and oil the bore afterwards....i'll have to keep an eye open now fer rust to see if i git it....thx..........bob

 

[Landngroove]

Since I use Stainless guns, things might work different for me

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security with SS guns. SS can corrode, and pit, if not cared for properly. (I'm sure you do care for your guns) True, SS is less likely to corrode than a blued steel, but it does happen. A friend of mine left a load of Pyrodex in his SS ML after the hunting season. The next year, after unscrewing the breachplug, and cleaning the barrel, discovered pitting in the breachplug area. I treat my SS guns the same as my blued, cleaned and oiled after every shooting session.

 

[Old Ironsights]

So do I (always clean after shooting - at least by the end of the day when not sleeping in the feild).

I'm just noting that my skin Ph is such that I can flash-rust anything, even stainless, if there isn't a good coat of RIG, wax or some other preservative on the surface.

 

[Zonie]

I read somewhere, maybe even on this board, that under the 'seasoning' of a barrel can be a layer of rust forming.

It is possible that No13 got under the seasoning and revealed a layer of rust?

Clutch

Not in this case.
The barrel was a brand new Green Mountain barrel which I built into the new Tennessee rifle I just finished.
As always, I checked the bore when I recieved the barrel and it was in flawless condition.

I didn't mention that while I was shooting, the relative humidity was about 8 percent and the temperature was about 106 degrees F.
The barrel was cleaned within 1/2 hour after the last shot was fired in it.
I mention this because IMO, the barrel can develop rust between when it was last fired and when it is cleaned. I don't think under the conditions here in Phoenix Sunday that any rusting could have occured. Then again, I can't proove that.

 

[roundball]

I read somewhere, maybe even on this board, that under the 'seasoning' of a barrel can be a layer of rust forming.

It is possible that No13 got under the seasoning and revealed a layer of rust?

Clutch

Not in this case.
The barrel was a brand new Green Mountain barrel which I built into the new Tennessee rifle I just finished.
As always, I checked the bore when I recieved the barrel and it was in flawless condition.

I didn't mention that while I was shooting, the relative humidity was about 8 percent and the temperature was about 106 degrees F.
The barrel was cleaned within 1/2 hour after the last shot was fired in it.
I mention this because IMO, the barrel can develop rust between when it was last fired and when it is cleaned. I don't think under the conditions here in Phoenix Sunday that any rusting could have occured. Then again, I can't proove that.

Ah-Haaaaaaaaaa....Zonie, there may be the explanation.

I've noticed differences between shooting a new barrel (TC, GM, etc.) depending on whether or not I've thoroughly cleaned & scrubbed it with hot soapy water BEFORE I shoot it...vs. shooting a new barrel WITHOUT getting it squeaky clean first.

When I've shoot a new barrel that I've thoroughly cleaned to leach out all of the manufacturer's machine oils from it before hand, it shoots and cleans up perfectly...which is how I do all new barrels now.

When I've shot a new barrel(s) without first getting them squeaky clean, I got brown tobbacco colored patches after cleaning it...would chek it the next morning and more tobacco brown colored patches...but I never got the impression it was actually rust, and it wiped out OK...just kept coming back.

I've since read an article that called that "blooming"...that the metal would continue to ooze residue until it finally all got leached out...two of my new barrels that I shot before thoroughly cleaning them went through 2-3 range trips and cleaning sessions before they finally settled down and all the oils were leached out of them...stopped making that tobbacco brown color, etc.

Maybe that's what you experienced rather than actual 'rust'...

 

[Zonie]

You may be right.

As a follow up test, I fouled the barrel on one of my .36 cal C&B pistols. I couldn't actually shoot it because I live in a city which frowns on gunfire (even blanks) in it.
Instead of firing it, I removed the barrel from the frame and poured about 20 grains of powder into it. This I touched off with a small pile of powder near the rear of the barrel.

I then proceeded to use the #13, by itself (no water wipes). It seemed to clean the bore without the redish stuff.
I repeated this experiment but added a water rinse to the process. This time, I got just a very light hint of a redish color but nowhere near as bad as my new Green Mountain barrel.

I'll keep your comments in mind when I fire my next gun with the Rice barrel on it.

In the meantime, to make the experiment more accurate, next weekend when I go to the range, I intend to take my .36 pistol and fire a number of shots thru it and then reclean it with the #13.
I'll report my findings here then.
Zonie

 

[Stumpkiller]

Back a couple years ago when I was doing rust testing on bare steel flashed with powder the region treated with #13 rusted before the untreated bare steel and the water wiped steel!

 

[roundball]

Back a couple years ago when I was doing rust testing on bare steel flashed with powder the region treated with #13 rusted before the untreated bare steel and the water wiped steel!

Sounds like an excellent cleaner, huh...doesn't leave anything behind...need to lube the exposed metal after the cleaning

 

[FallingCrows]

dump the No. 13 and use the bottle for something else, like another cleaner that you can take to the field.

I use Hopps to clean and Break Free CLP for rust prevention.