Observations at the NMLRA fall championships

[Claude Mathis]

Somebody better tell the millions of Harley riders that their local HOG chapter (over 1,400 chapters world-wide) is about to disappear. :wink:

If the other 1,399 Chapters are like the Snotsdale, AZ HOG Chapter, a Big Ride for them is from the Harley Davidson-STEALERSHIP, to the local Starbucks. :bull:

No two chapters are alike, nor do I care what they do, but do they go on forums and complain about it, or are they having a good time? :grin:

 

[akapennypincher]

No two chapters are alike, nor do I care what they do, but do they go on forums and complain about it, or are they having a good time? :grin:

The Internet is a powerful tool to share information, be the information good, or bad.

I do not know what all HOG Chapters do, as I was curious once about HOG Chapters, found out about the SNOTSDALE HOG Chapter, after checking out the BIGGEST HOG CHAPTER in the Vally, I went back to long rides by myself, or with a few friends I feel safe with.

But in defense of the local HOG Chapter in the WEST VALLY, not SNOTSDALEone. The West Valley group does a lot for Veterans causes.


Something I have been involved in for more years than I have fingers, and toes. :grin:

 

[pr.piburn]

We are on a limited income "Social Security" and
live 600 miles away in Kansas City. Friendship is
everything to us. Been going for 20 years. Our
daughter was almost raised there. Made lots of
friends. The family, wife daughter and I just
shoot pistol there. But it is a real vacation for
us. The whole trip, everything including shooting
and staying the whole week run about 600.00. That's for the gas also. We love it and just have
a great time. Sure it has changed. What hasn't.
Without it would leave a great void in our lives.
I guess I'm different, but we will continue going
as long as the health holds up.
Phil

 

[Rifleman1776]

3rd: the NMLRA now has a page on facebook; https://www.facebook.com/groups/96116146327/

True, but participation is near nil. I visit occasionally but see nothing new. Who do you blame for that?
I belong to several ML forums. Two of them used to be very active and now a post a month is a lot. Two have never had posts, other than a few I have made, in years.

Edit: this must be a different link than what I have tried. There is participation here but, sadly, it seems to be by only a few individuals.

 

[tecum-tha]

Reading the January edition of Muzzleblast there was a letter to the editor adressing the missing of the discussion about the membership number issue in the membership meeting summary. This gentleman writing the letter was the same gentleman who started the discussion at the membership meeting, myself and other attending members chimed in. I have to admit, that I expected to read something about that discussion in the October edition of muzzleblast in the membership meeting summary,too.
Clearly, the president is focusing on the effect of social media (December edition), especially things like facebook and twitter. The problem is that facebook and twitter are only successful with constant activity. In all honesty, I am neither on facebook (privacy reasons) or on twitter (a waste of time in my opinion).
But, there are 2 things that have a lasting effect and help making a positive impression on the online community:
1. a professional website with easy to access information. 5 clicks max and one can read what he or she is looking for.
2. a youtube channel where the association can post videos from the association events. All this requires is some members walking around with a portable video camera and doing some random interviews. Do 2 or 3 and cut them down into 5 min clips. Youtube also helps vertical web-browsing and information gathering. So a lot of people initially not looking for the NMLRA will click on some of our videos and may get interested.
4.)In the Muzzleblast Magazine, there is the column"The last relay", with the name of recently deceased members,often with a short summary written by relatives or friends. It is an honorful thing to have this column.
But what I would like to read in he magazine is a list of the new members as well.
The column:
The NMLRA welcomes the following new members:
Name/City/State
Every webforum has something like that, and it would be voluntary to be listed.

I plan to attend the Connar Prairie Show in February in Noblesville,IN and would encourage discussion about thes points.

 

[rcbelding]

Wow. I thought I was alone as a once-proud NMLRA member who now is disgusted with the organization. Certainly the loss of members is the result of an aging population, but I think its also partly philosophical. For instance, I always blow down the barrel IMMEDIATELY after firing to blow out any embers. I feel its MANDATORY to ensure safe reloading and I don't want to wet swab. Now along comes the NMLRA to tell me its unsafe, even dangerous, why I might even blow my head off! That's nonsense, I know the gun is unloaded because I just unloaded it by firing it! Ron Paul would understand my reaction, even if the NMLRA doesn't get it.

----
Flintlock, black powder and round balls - Life is sweet.

 

[tecum-tha]

@lucky, this is great and I wish you the best for many more years of enjoying the shoots. I also like that obviously your daughter still attends the shoots with you.Did you attend the membership meeting last fall as well?

@catchem: No, I am not disgusted with the NMLRA, but I am interested in getting the NMLRA back into a growth mode. I think the potential is there and there are a lot of interested people around. Heck, I converted at least 50 modern archers into traditional archers with many more to come. I think it is not too late, since there are alot of curious minds within the firearm community who are interested in the "back to the roots movement".
For me personally,it is particularly important to keep the primitive side alive and kicking, since this is the part of Friendship which I enjoy the most,together with the woodswalk and gunmakers hall. The primitive area is endangered the most, because the participation "requirements" are higher there than at the normal ranges.
The infrastructure at Friendhsip is there and it is overall very good. Yes, there are some deficits, but deficits are huge in american roads, bridges, water supply and water sanitation systems as well and funds are very limited.
But we would dishonor the commitment and investment of earlier generations if we would just let it fall apart and die out. That's why I opened this "puplic" discussion, as a brainstorming for improvement ideas.

 

[pr.piburn]

Yes, Yhe daughter still goes. You see, I may be
almost 70 but my daughter is just 13. That's how
it happens sometimes. It was meant to be. This is
from last Sept. And no I was not at the meeting.

 

[rcbelding]

Pious platitudes. You danced all around, like Bill Clinton about Lewinski, without addressing my point.

Powder manufacturers warn that you must make sure no embers remain in the barrel before reloading. A natural, time tested method of preventing this, blowing down the barrel IMMEDIATELY after discharge, is banned as unsafe. Ok, tell me how its unsafe? If its about pointing a gun at something you don't want to shoot, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds .." Try cleaning your gun, or carrying it anywhere without breaking that 'rule'.

One of the few virtual 'impossibilities' of this world is that a just-fired muzzle loader can discharge a second time. For the NMLRA, its enough to know that it looks scarey to the liability lawyers to initiate this ban.

What do you do to prevent unexpected discharges on loading that may maim, blind or kill a shooter? It has to be consistent to be any good, and I see NOTHING consistent that the NMLRA has produced to prevent this tragedy. Instead, people like me, who pride ourselves on being safe and are conscientiously trying to avoid a safety hazard, are labelled as idiots who don't know the first thing about safety. Don't you realize how insulting this is? So, you chase away some of the best, hard core members of the NMLRA and are then surprised that you are losing members?

Enough, I'm outta here.

-------------
Flint lock, black powder and round balls - Life is Sweet

 

[Claude Mathis]

One of the few virtual 'impossibilities' of this world is that a just-fired muzzle loader can discharge a second time.

I guess the NMLRA doesn't want to teach kids that it's okay to stick a gun in your mouth if you just fired it? :wink:

 

[rcbelding]

C'mon, Claude. I have too much respect for you from previous posts to expect this sort of argument from you.

1. Do you have such contempt for children that you think they are irrational and unteachable?

2. Certainly you have seen what children are exposed to every day on television about the improper use of firearms? This is small potatoes.

3. When logic and reasoning depart, argument is useless.

I'm outta here.
------------

Flintlock, black powder and round balls - Life is sweet

 

[Rifleman1776]

I blew down the barrel after shooting regularly for many years. Still do on occasion from habit. But, I, also from habit, swab after every shot. Doing that pushes air down the bore and out the touch/flash hole accomplishing the same thing. If it accomplishes nothing else, not blowing is another safety discipline. That cannot be bad.

 

[Claude Mathis]

C'mon, Claude. I have too much respect for you from previous posts to expect this sort of argument from you.

1. Do you have such contempt for children that you think they are irrational and unteachable?

Not at all, but some children have done the strangest things, even after being taught by the most perfect parents.

2. Certainly you have seen what children are exposed to every day on television about the improper use of firearms? This is small potatoes.

Sure, but I never use previous bad behavior to justify anything, no matter the size of the potato. :wink:

My point is, I may choose to blow down my barrel, but I can see why an organization with insurance and a tremendous liability may choose to prohibit it at an event they sponsor. That is their right and it's probably prudent.

 

[tecum-tha]

I blow down the barrel or moist swab or both. Depends on what rifle I shoot and where.
To run away from an organisation, because I can't do something "questionable" is imho childish.
You could damp patch wipe the barrel or use a piece of rubber hose to blow down the barrel and not stick your mouth or face in front of the muzzle. You just don't want to.
For an organisation needing liability insurance, where most gun safety procedures are completely influenced by modern repeating firearms, it is a small sacrifice to make.

Is it period correct to not prime the rifle before loading the barrel? No, but it is the safer way to do.
It is even against all period military loading procedures.
An interesting thing is, that in these period military loading manuals, I never read that:
1.) After firing, blow down the barrel
2.) bring cock to half-rest
3.) wipe the pan clean with your thumb
4.) bite off paper cartridge
5.) prime pan
6.) closing the battery (frizzen)
7.) pour powder down the barrel
8.) insert remaining paper cartridge with ball
9.) extract rammer
10.) ram ball down
11.) return rammer
12.) bring firelock forward
13.) pull back cock
14.) present arms
15.) aim
16.) fire
.....
The reports of firing exercise accidents due to cook offs or guns going off accidently are very rare. A bigger problem in early times was low barrel quality and blowing up muskets. The production procedure was quickly changed and proof firing barrels with proof marks were introduced. A barrel blacksmith and his team were only paid for barrels that proofed positive. In order to make a living forging barrel you better did not produce garbage, or you would starve. Why the improvement in quality? Because the rulers did not want to be affiliated with giving inferior weapons to their troops. The impact on morale was found to be very high.

 

[akapennypincher]

Wow. I thought I was alone as a once-proud NMLRA member who now is disgusted with the organization. Certainly the loss of members is the result of an aging population, but I think its also partly philosophical. For instance, I always blow down the barrel IMMEDIATELY after firing to blow out any embers. I feel its MANDATORY to ensure safe reloading and I don't want to wet swab. Now along comes the NMLRA to tell me its unsafe, even dangerous, why I might even blow my head off! That's nonsense, I know the gun is unloaded because I just unloaded it by firing it! Ron Paul would understand my reaction, even if the NMLRA doesn't get it.

When I was a NMLRA Field Representative I was sent a list of 75 Ex Arizona Member who had dropped out, to call, and ask why they dropped there NMLRA MEMBERSHIP.

I made about 30-35 calls, and most were as you say "disgusted with the organization".

Disgusted with the the repetitiveness of Muzzle Blast

Disgusted with the non publicity by the NMLRA of the Winter Nationals, aka Western Nationals. So Trader never returned, and the list is too long to list of Trader who abandoned the Phoenix Shoot.

Disgusted with the the way Presidents, and Members of the Ex Com, and BOD who ignored suggestions, or letter & e-mails to the same group, that never were answered.

Disgusted with the with the promises of NEXT YEAR, and Next Year came and went, and ZERO CHANGED.

I personally was disgusted with the the BOD taking the 7K Profit from the 2000 Western Shoot Raffle, and Auction, using those profits to buy a Frozen Yogurt Machine for the Friendship Facility, and not using part of the Profit to seed the 2001 Western Shoot.

Think one guy said it best when I called, and asked why he did not renew his NMLRA Membership. After ranting about many thing, he said it only took 2 years for the NMLRA to have someone call me about "WHY" I quit.

I honestly think when Mike Yazel became the NMLRA's President the Orginization started on a big roll down hill. While Yazel was NMLRA President he NEVER ATTENDED THE NMLRA Western Shoot. As President he pass on the FREE RIDE to do so. Yes NMLRA President have a very nice expense account

The next two President have not stopped the Down Hill Roll. If the NMLRA had retained 80% of those who quit being in the last 10-15 years. The NMLRA would have about 25-30K Members NOW! Not about 13K :shake:

To those NMLRA Members who are worry about the NMLRA, Do the following THREE THINGS.

1. Let your Elected NMLRA BOD worry about the NMLRA, as it is the BOD's Job to worry & run the NMLRA, and what you vote them in to do.

They have done a great job of spending money on EVP's who did nothing, build a world class motor home parking facility in Friendship that get used a couple of time a year. What did that project cost? Plus letting NMLRA Membership slip to low levels, and doing little to retain membership.

2. Go shoot at the Friendship Nationals until the gates at Friendship are lock for the last time. Than you will have the memories of making it to Friendship before it is gone, the memories of Traders staying at the National during the entire shoot, because they were busy.

3. Find a local club to shoot with, that is more interested in Shoot, than who has the most Shooting Medals, and go shoot, and just have fun.

 

[rcbelding]

This topic was apparently started by tecum-tha for constructive criticism of what is a dying organization. For one-time NMLRA members such as myself, this is very sad.

I am going to rejoin for a year. During that year, I hope the BOD will re-examine their stand forbidding blowing down the barrel that has apparently alienated thousands of muzzle loader shooters. I say 'thousands' because on other parts of this forum, I see definite support for blowing down the barrel, immediately after firing, with people using black powder - a lot of necessary qualifications.

Surely the NMLRA's liability insurance lawyers, who obviously started this whole mess, are clever enough to be able to accept something like the following -

" Although strongly discouraged, at traditional matches using black powder, blowing down the barrel is permitted provided that this is done immediately after discharge of the firearm, and on recovery from recoil. "

I believe that this compromise would satisfy all but the most dogmatic of people and would permit me, and perhaps others, to continue to be a member of the NMLRA.

--------
Flint lock, black powder and round balls - Life is Sweet

 

[flintlock50]

Sorry to disappoint you but we do not have nor ever had a Frozen Yogurt Machine at Friendship which had you ever been there you would be aware of.
Profits from ALL shoots go into the general fund and are used as needed including funding those activities in following years. This has allowed the Western shoot to continue even though for many years it was a loosing proposition.

The president has an expense account of appox. $5000.00 annually which for many years they haven,t used so it would be available if needed for disasters. It costs our president aprox. $10,000.00 a year out of pocket including actual expenses and time away from their jobs to have the PLEASURE of serving this organization. When you see them at the SHOT show, NRA convention,Winter shoot etc. it is because they were willing to pay for the trip. Perhaps a thank-you might serve better than :bull:

This information is available in the budget and by asking, all members who are interested in the facts.

My contact info is readily available to all who wish to discuss facts and solutions to the real problems that do affect the NMLRA.

 

[tecum-tha]

Sarcasm on:
Frozen Yoghurt Machine at Friendship,IN? Where is the thing? :idunno: Is it sitting in the secret private meeting bunker of the BOD under the new educational building so that the BOD can keep a cool head during their meetings when they have to read a lot of these unconstructive statements here?" :rotf:
I also don't see the president or members of the BOD drive around in long black limousines paid by an "unlimited expense account". This is just hilarious.
Sarcasm off
Now, speaking of persons: I had a long talk with Mike Yazel at the last NMLRA member meeting after I announced some of my views and observations there. In fact, me and Mike agreed on most points. The funny thing is, I didn't even know that Mike was a former President of the NMLRA, because I only knew him from reenactments where he demonstrates the "primitive" wood turning lathe.
Now, I am deeply involved in traditional/primitive archery as well and talked last weekend with the leading "traditional archery magazine editors" who had their booth right beside ours at the traditional Archery Expo in Kalamazoo,MI. Telling her how much I like the online subscription to their magazine, she told me that most online subscribers are 35 years or younger and like that the paper magazines do not clutter up their space and that they can read on their kindle/ nook or other electronic reader or on their laptop.
I can take my whole magazine collection with me on a 3GB USB stick anywhere I want to go. It is searchable and sharable information.
@pennypincher:
Please be so kind and give me that name list of all those former members (please don't include deceased members), I'd like to contact them and hear for myself what their problem was or is?

 

Just a thought: Doesn't the NMLRA have an online place where you guys could argue about the organization? Seems like it would be more productive if all the NMLRA members were able to offer input.

 

[tecum-tha]

I don't think you understand the purpose of this thread! Please read the original question in the first thread of the topic!
If you don't like it, don't read it!