Observations at the NMLRA fall championships

[hoochiepapa]

I am a member, have submitted a story, don't like them including those bastardizations of muzzle loaders. Pretty much like the mag, most of all the featured old guns, and the art.

 

[Jason Lewis]

(which you'll hardly ever see in Friendship anyways.)

exactly, bubba doesn't care about target shooting unless it's a deer.

 

[Jason Lewis]

in general that is.

 

[tecum-tha]

I have seen one or two modern ML guns on the woodswalk range. The operators did not shoot much better than the flintlock and percussion shooters. But after the match those guys where very interested in traditional ML guns.

One big reason for the success of modern kind of muzzleloader is a simple one: price,performance, availability and simple operation with pre-manufactured stuff.
If we look at wally world, where bubba shops,they have a complete gun with everything you need for $199.
The cheapest traditional gun kit I have seen lately (which needs a lot of final sanding and finishing) is about $290 ($230 is factory seconds)
from the same manufacturer as the $199 all inklusive set.
My buddy's grandson just killed his first deer with a percussion muzzleloader last weekend during the youth season. I finished the gun from a kit I spent $140 on a few years ago, which even has a stainless barrel. The gun is a tackdriver and he nailed the doe clean from about 50 yards.
He messed up two years of hunting season with a (not good fitting) modern gun. The set trigger and a simple hunting peep sight make for a very deadly combination in the hand of an 11 year old.
I'll ask him to write an article for the next Muzzle Blast....

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks to you and Dixie, enough said.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

I guess I'm considered a younger person. I joined the NMLRA a few years ago. The way I found it was actually oblique in that I saw a Youtube video about muzzleloading that featured the NMLRA. It wasn't an NMLRA video, but a video produced by Kentucky Afield.

I did some research, joined the organization and then got in contact via email with the NMLRA central office trying to get into contact with a local club. I attended a shoot or two and then set about finding a gun. This first club was a bit far off for me to reach. I eventually found a gun and joined a different local club. This second club I found the contact for through Google. It is a Charter Club but the contact information available was very limited. Using Google though, I filled in the contact information. I've been shooting with them ever since. The average age of the club is disturbingly high. I would estimate the next youngest member is at least 15-20 years older than me. Lack of young people is a serious problem. I like the mentor abilities of these guys, but it's not a good long-term membership recipe.

I do read the magazine when I get a chance. I do miss the Bevel Brothers, but I also think the magazine has some interesting information to offer.

As the NMLRA members/leadership probably know, the online presence is a big wasted opportunity. People under 35 generally use the internet as their main source of research and daily information. They are as comfortable online as their elders are uncomfortable.

My experience is indicative: I found out about the NMLRA through a Youtube video provided by a completely separate organization (Kentucky Afield). That sort of marketing is good, but it is incidental and should not be a substitute for a direct presence in multimedia, especially online videos. Does the NMLRA have a Youtube account/channel? Look at the success of Kentucky Afield or even private users like Hickok45 on youtube-- they've found an audience across ages online, but you'll see younger people interested.

Younger people live via Email and (increasingly very recently) text messages. Many contacts provided by the NMLRA have phone numbers, but emails (perhaps texts) are king with the under 35 crowd. I think each club/rep should have an email up. It lowers the bar for people to make contact and provide the convenience of reading at leisure rather than an on-the-spot call.

As for inlines, I am not entirely opposed to them. I think someone with an inline who enjoys the sport (rather than just trying to exploit hunting season rules, there are some of those guys out there) could use an inline as a gateway to primitive weapons. I say give those gateway guys a chance. A man is more than the sum of the guns he owns. I welcome all interested and devoted joiners, even if they start with an inline.

 

[Jason Lewis]

i'll agree with that. the NMLRA website is kinda slim.

 

[tecum-tha]

At the membership meeting, I exactly stated this problem Ray described. No youtube channel, no educational videos, no informational links on the website. Hard to navigate shoot programs(it takes some efforts to make up your match plan for a shoot). Just offering the matches in a .pdf document, which is exactly the same as the printed version makes it hard to find out about the what and when.
Another thing in modern webpages is important:
Simplicity and accessability. No Java, flash or other scripts. A good website navigates you with a few clicks to the information you want and need.
Example: Main page--> 2012 Spring Shoot-->shoot program site shows table of contents with kind of matches: primitive, shotgun, rifle, woodswalk etc.--> click--> match name, match number, description and the time match is offered+ eventually links to safety regulations,special hints, demonstrative videos on how-to etc. which are important for the match.
Advertisers in the printed programs can still have their banner shown on the webpage, like it is here on the forum,too.
As to have its own web forum, I don't think this is a priority for new shooters/members, since moderation of a forum is time consuming and needs a lot of dedicated guys. Maybe a NMLRA member only sub-forum on this forum here makes sense and can be a win-win situation for both. Traditional State Bowhunting Organizations have that on a big traditional archery forum as well.
Fact is: There is interest in the younger generation, but they can not or don't know how to access information about the NMLRA and muzzleloading in general. If they go to the local outdoor or sporting goods retailer, they'll end up with a modern ML gun (because that is what the shop carries and makes a profit with)and the sales person usually has no glue about ML also.

Even a traditional archery magazine I subscribe to offers a slightly discounted online subscription. I will get me this one. I can download the mag onto my mobile harddrive and access to out of print editions of the magazine is included,too. So I can carry a myriad of reading material on a small USB stick. It will save me the paper clutter I have on my "working" desk all the time and the storage space for all the magazines.
Electronic media is great, if used for the right purpose in a useful way.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Criticizing finding out about NMLRA is not a valid grip, IMHO. A simple Google of 'muzzle loading' or similar, will bring it up. Reps are often found at guns shows. If you want it it is there.
I do agree, the website is pretty sorry. For a long time the opening pictures were of archers. Archers???
That tells me there is nobody in charge.
The leadership mindset is as quaint and out of date as is the headquarters farm house.
I see a lot of comments about the Bevel Brothers. They were a nice feature. But things change and they are gone. Readers like Q&A features. A new one may come along, there are a lot of knowledgable people out there who can also bang on a typing machine.

 

[hrchotaw]

I attended the fall shoot the first three days.This was my first.I agree I didn't see much there to attract younger people who were attending the first time.I am a member and would have a hard time telling someone to plunk down the $40.00 and join the NMLRA!As a matter of fact I have attended small rifle frolics,and local shoots where somebody would have a crowd of younger aged people around giving demonstrations of loading,care and finally shooting a longrifle from a bench.(Of course with the parents consent).The kids loved it and I'm sure out of the dozens,for some this experience opened the door to the traditional!Was there anything like that there?The only instructional stuff I saw at Friendship was a class on bag making.Heck,that and maybe underwater basket weaving is sure to get the younger people interested . Oh and I forgot they had a wine tasting on saturday.And then on monday and tuesday,(when most people have to work for a living they have a bow making class)!Doesn't seem like whoever does the scheduling realizes for most people the weekend is all they have? And then the membership meeting is sunday night at 7:30 when most people have to be headed home,maybe thats why attendance is low. :idunno:

 

[tecum-tha]

Well, there is the opportunity for youngsters to shoot a longgun for the first time. It is set up during the weekends on the youth range.
The big problem is making people aware what is going on when and where. Friendship is a pretty big place with lots of things to do and lot of different ranges. Although I think it is a good idea to get the kids involved, that is our secondary target.It gets the next-next generation involved.
I think also, that some prices are a little out of hand at the Spring and National Championship shoots. Tent camping is too pricey in my opinion.
For one person I pay as much per person as pitching my tent like someone putting up an RV(with water,sewer,electric included) (with 2 persons). My tent needs no electric hook-up, but I pay for it.
I think the primitive area needs different rules when it comes to camping as well. If you camp for the whole nine days with 3 persons(2 parents, one 18 yea old kid) you pay almost $200 and you have to be primitive only. Aside the cost of the primitve camping gear, you probably have to drive a truck to get all the stuff in and you'll probably have about $100 in gas. Now, you haven't registered yet or haven't eaten anything.
Registration fees are weird in my opinion:
One day shooting fees are low, but if you want to stay for the weekend only, you have to pay registration for the whole shoot.
One day registration is $5 (could be 7.50?), but 2 days (=one weekend)=$30.
How about $15 for the weekend?
In my example we have already spent about $400, without having shot any match yet.
I am basically ok, with the match costs, but I would like another information piece on specific matches: estimated time to complete.
I already registered for a few matches, but ran out of time to shoot them. For proper planning you need to know your times.
The primitive range closes too early. There is still a min. of 3-4 hours of daylight and thus usable time to shoot. This is very inconvenient for weekend shooters (the normal working guy).
Our current main target audience must be the 18-40 year olds. These people have the power over the "family" funds or have at least some dispensible income for fun stuff. They usually also own a car to get to shoots or to Friendship. If a kid just wants something, they always can say "no".
If they want something, they'll try to get it within their financial means.
I attended the Fall Shoot only for the first weekend as well, but stayed for the "inconvenient timed" membership meeting on sunday night. I got home much too late after some interesting discussions.
How many kids of the 55-XXX year old members are members? I think the Association will have a hard time trying to jump over a complete generation.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A lot of your comments/complaints seem well founded. The fees are high and seem to make no sense at all.
But, do understand, nobody is requiring the primitive folks to get a lodge and all the gear needed to go with it. The primitive, or rendezvous, pursuit is costly, no doubt. Been there, done that. It is done from a love of the activity, preservation of history and attempt to relive same. And the comaraderie is like none other.

 

[tecum-tha]

These are not really complaints, but I rather see them as comments to think about. There is always room for improvement.
Yes, the primitive stuff is costly, but I am mostly looking for "fixed costs" to participate in Friendship and their justification.
The Association needs to get their funding as well, but wouldn't it be better to have 25,000 members instead of 16,000 members and being able to lower some fees and still cover costs?
That would even make the potential volunteer pool bigger.

 

[jethro224]

Those are some good points tecum-tha.

The big problem is making people aware what is going on when and where. Friendship is a pretty big place with lots of things to do and lot of different ranges.

This could be easily addressed by a map and schedule posted at or near the gate and a printed flyer hand-out.

I think also, that some prices are a little out of hand at the Spring and National Championship shoots.

I agree. And I have heard this as one main reason that a lot of folks don't attend. It costs too much. And, let's not church it up, the campground sucks.
There should be some sites with no hook-ups available for tent campers at a cheaper rate.
The restrooms/showers are old and nasty and long past due for updating! The sites are the worst-marked that I have ever seen. It can be hard to figure out where you're supposed to be.
I have heard it said by many campers that the funds used for the education building would have been far better spent on campground/restroom/shower upgrades. Even incorporating them into the ends of the education building...
Why is the rate per-person instead of per-site? It should at least be reduced for the 2nd thru 4th or 5th person on the same site.
Primitive camp fees seem a little high too for no more than you get.

Registration fees are weird in my opinion:

Registration fees are :bull: in my opinion. I already paid to be a registered member. That should cover my shooters registration too. At most another $5 for the badge should cover it for the whole shoot. Especially since each match costs even more $ to shoot.
BTW, a one-day registration is $15 not $5.
Seems to me it would be more fair to raise the price of each match $1 and eliminate the registration fee altogether. That way those who actually use the facilities most would pay the most and those who just want to shoot one or two matches 2 days in a row wouldn't have to pay just as much as those who stay all 9 days.

The primitive range closes too early. There is still a min. of 3-4 hours of daylight and thus usable time to shoot. This is very inconvenient for weekend shooters (the normal working guy).

It would be nice if the primitive range stayed open later but those folks who run it want to get away from there too. :idunno: You'd need more volunteers or employees to run it.

 

[tecum-tha]

Correct on more volunteers needed at the primitive range. This can only be acomplished with attracting more period campers or shooters.
The bigger the volunteer pool, the lower the timely needs on one individual volunteer.
That's why the primitive area needs revival.
Another question for period correct is what is period correct? The Spirit of Vincennes Rendesvouz has a great booklet out for their respective time period. We should have something similar also.
Today is the Boyscout shoot and I would have really liked to go, but my home does not remodel itself. Will bind most of my weekends up to next spring. I hope to be able to get some more personal time for Friendship.

Another thing that always ticks me off is acceptance of credit cards at the camping shed and at the registration. Isn't the NMLRA affiliated with the Friendship National Bank and can get two or three swipe/PIN machines?
Another thing is, the ladies still have to get my complete name and everything and write that down by hand on a registration form. This is a big time killer. Giving my membership card should be enough and the registration badge/form should come right out of the printer. That would save at least one volunteer position there, would speed up the process remarkably and free the "saved" volunteer for different things or lowers the time burden on the volunteers.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Googling is a form of direct approach and is there, true. What I'm talking about is the rather tangential way many young people gain access. Take YouTube, for example. Someone might browse videos without ever hitting Google up for a direct knowledge search. Instead they are browsing videos about history/reenacting/hunting, whatever. Having an NMLRA channel video in the sidebar come up, with a nice video, is a nice opportunity. The funny thing is that with younger people, they work tangentially online. Wikipedia's linking different articles is a good idea of how they work. That kind of "side door" is a big boost, in my view, beyond just the direct google search.

As tecum-tha said, I'm not complaining either. I'm just trying to point out that trying to grab young people involves sort of thinking like them. It isn't easy to do that, but it's something that does help.

 

[Rifleman1776]

but wouldn't it be better to have 25,000 members

The association had that many member in the mid to late 1970s.
Huge decline since then.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The restrooms/showers are old and nasty and long past due for updating!

I had an association president once tell me people were there to shoot, not camp. Money spent would go to shooting first.
I suggested anytime an event drew large numbers of people, health and sanitation should be a top priority. He strongly disagreed.

 

[jethro224]

Well everybody that camps there strongly disagrees with him.

I'm willing to put up with the crummy facilities but my family won't be attending until there are cleaner and better bathrooms.

 

[flintlock50]

#1 A map of the faciliteies and calander of events day by day is in the shoot program avaliable at event and online prior to event.

#2 One day reg fee is $5.00 not $15.00 this was changed last year.I know because I was the one pushing to make this happen. There is a need for a 2 day reg fee, but if you preregister it is $20.00 only those who wait to get there are charged $30.00.

#3 The spring and fall shoots are and will remain self supporting no membership dues or other general fund money is used to make these happen including repairs and upgrades to campground.Your membership dues are not registration fees to the shoots , all other national type shoots charge a reg. fee.

#4 Camp fees for all areas except Frontier Heritage (full hook-up campground) and primitive are $15.00 a nite for one person and $5.00 per nite for ALL ADDITIONAL people in camp wehter it is one or four making the most you will pay for a rserved site all week long is $170.00. This includes elec only no water or sewer these are not avaliable.
Just spent 2 nites at Boonesbourgh campground cost $60.00 for 2 people with elec and water only.

#5 If you would like to keep primitive range open later I suggest you volunteer to run range,after taking range officer course and working traing hours to get certified. How much time have you donated to org.? PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PITCH IN TO MAKE IT BETTER FOR ALL OF US!!

#6 Sorry the facilities are not suitable for your family. The shower houses are painted often and cleaned daily,they are not new but are notnearly as bad as you insinuated. Most of the painting and upkeep are done at the yearly membership work party advertised in M.B. you would be welcome!!

I will not claim that the NMLRA is perfect as it is but myself and many others who VOLUNTEER OUR TIME ,time we would rather use shooting are working to improve it not setting around telling others what they should be doing to make it more like we want it to be!!

The main reason there are less younger people at the fall shoot is school is in session, parents and kids are tied up.The younger members with families who travel longer distances using vacation time to fully enjoy the shoot can't do so in the numbers that come to the spring shoot.

If you do the research you will find that the 45+ age group are the ones with disposiable incomes,they have raised or are close to moving the kids out and are able to do what they want when they want.

There is a weekend Turkey shoot this weekend at Friendship, since you lve close it would be a perfect time to come and meet some people and get involved hope to see you there.