Observations at the NMLRA fall championships

[Geraldo]

I was a member back in the 1980s. My interest was in primitive shooting and rondys, and the NMLRA didn't offer me much at the time so I let my membership lapse. Big rondys were more attractive than Camp Perry with muzzleloaders. Now I don't go to rondys but I'm somewhat interested in the target shooting. However, there's no way I'm driving 1300 miles to Friendship. But I'm one guy out on the ragged edge of shooting and no great loss.

If I were to give advice to the NMLRA, and why wouldn't I, I would say that it has always needed to figure out what it wants to be. Can the NMLRA cater to target shooters with no interest in primitive stuff as well as people who like rondys but aren't into the Camp Perry atmosphere? I do not know, but it seems like a tough thing to do. Neither camp is growing by leaps and bounds.

Which leads to younger people, who are the future of everything whether we like them or not. Google, youtube, social media are great tools to reach them, but you need to put a gun in their hands if you want to hook them. How about forgetting Friendship for a while and working on state and regional shoots that encourage new shooters,even those who don't own a ML to come out and give it a try? That's a lot of work from your current leadership and whatever affiliated clubs are left, but you've got to do something because NMLRA has one foot in the grave already.

 

[flintlock50]

I was a member back in the 1980s. My interest was in primitive shooting and rondys, and the NMLRA didn't offer me much at the time so I let my membership lapse. Big rondys were more attractive than Camp Perry with muzzleloaders. Now I don't go to rondys but I'm somewhat interested in the target shooting. However, there's no way I'm driving 1300 miles to Friendship. But I'm one guy out on the ragged edge of shooting and no great loss.

If I were to give advice to the NMLRA, and why wouldn't I, I would say that it has always needed to figure out what it wants to be. Can the NMLRA cater to target shooters with no interest in primitive stuff as well as people who like rondys but aren't into the Camp Perry atmosphere? I do not know, but it seems like a tough thing to do. Neither camp is growing by leaps and bounds.

Which leads to younger people, who are the future of everything whether we like them or not. Google, youtube, social media are great tools to reach them, but you need to put a gun in their hands if you want to hook them. How about forgetting Friendship for a while and working on state and regional shoots that encourage new shooters,even those who don't own a ML to come out and give it a try? That's a lot of work from your current leadership and whatever affiliated clubs are left, but you've got to do something because NMLRA has one foot in the grave already.

You are correct we do need to emphasis what we were founded to be and what we always have been, which is a muzzleloading shooting org.
Not sure I understand the idea of "forgeting about Friendship" since this is where the NMLRA was founded and where our offices, support staff, publications dept and national ranges are located.
also by forgeting Friendship we would lose $65,000 - $80,000 in revenue generated by the Spring and Fall shoots in addition to the fact that these shoots are required to support themselves as no memmbership dues etc can be used to fund them. We can not afford this.
Not to mention ticking off the members who do make the effort to come and participate, some who have traveled a good distance to be there, AL, NY,TX,MI,CA and ME.

We currently have three programs to address local and regional shooting activities, Territorial program, Charter club Program and Field Rep program,all 3 which are in severe need of restructuring so they can better respond to the needs of our membership. This is a subject that is slated to be addressed at the Dec. BOD meeting.
All three of these programs depend on support from NMLRA and volunteer efforts from local clubs and members, it is and probably always will be financialy impossible for any org. to provide shooting opportunities to every location in the country without local involvment and people willing to make it happen in their area.
Join the NMLRA, find a local club willing to host a Terr. match and we will help make it happen.

The primitive camp at Friendship is not intended to be a Eastern rend. encampment it is there to serve the shooters on the primitive range who want a primitive camp to enjoy while the participate in our events.It is also an excellent opportunity for newcomers to primitive to get their feet wet without undo harrassment that can happen at stricter events. We got out of the rendevous business with the forming of the NLHRF several years ago. They are currently facing some of the same problems and headaches the NMLRA faced when running rend. including the voluntary withdrawal from the foundation of the Pacific and other western rendys.

 

[Geraldo]

You are correct we do need to emphasis what we were founded to be and what we always have been, which is a muzzleloading shooting org.
Not sure I understand the idea of "forgeting about Friendship" since this is where the NMLRA was founded and where our offices, support staff, publications dept and national ranges are located.
also by forgeting Friendship we would lose $65,000 - $80,000 in revenue generated by the Spring and Fall shoots in addition to the fact that these shoots are required to support themselves as no memmbership dues etc can be used to fund them. We can not afford this.
Not to mention ticking off the members who do make the effort to come and participate, some who have traveled a good distance to be there, AL, NY,TX,MI,CA and ME.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. If the NMLRA's emphasis is on Friendship to exclusion of all else, then you're going to get what you get now, but in declining numbers until they close the place.

What I'm saying is this: thinking long range, the matches at Friendship are far less important than getting new members. Friendship and the shoots are now, new membership is the future.

 

[jdw276]

I want to start with I have been a NMLRA member for about 4 years now and went to Friendship this fall for the first time ever and been a member of this forum for about the same amount of time. I am 56.

I am very happy as a NMLRA member and I will go back to friendship because I learned a bunch and just enjoyed the atmosphere around it.

Now for my comments, I feel Friendship is a great event but I did notice that there were not a lot of "young" shooters there. I see that as an opportunity but also a problem. youngsters can't travel there to shoot so we need to create more opportunities locally through our state reps and local rnages that increases membership if it is PROMOTED out there locally. Timing, families have to take vacation to go there with when the shoots are although the fall one is after school starts back so this is tough. All this leads to retirees traveling to Friendship because they have the time. That also means it is passed generation to generation.

For those of you who are members of the NRA, how many of you have been to the headquarters in VA? They have a beautiful building for you, 8 stories or so, great museum, gift shop even an indoor range you can shoot at with anything as a member I believe for free. They do not do "events" like Friendship though. Why do I bring that up, well why are most of you members of the NRA? The boring magazine that I discontinued getting? The insurance? Your local clubs require it? The rental car discounts? So you can watch Wayne LaPierre go to Africa on your dime to hunt big game on TV? We don't have to lobby gun control at this time. Why are we all members of the NRA?

the NRA headquarters is a tourist destination just like the NBA or baseball hall of fame or even Six Flags. Friendship is that as well although a bit more remote. Friendship to me is no different that Andersonville or Stone mountain in GA along with all the other things to see around the country. It is a GREAT place to visit.

We support an organization called the NMLRA. Yes for many of you who have been in the sport for YEARS, there is not a lot that is new for you so much so we can't teach you anything even if you would listen. I can still learn a bunch and want to. But we are promoting a sport and an old lifestyle. It is fun. Do you old timers like to see a smile on a young person's face? Let him shoot your ML and promote the sport at your local club. You don't have to go to Friendship, the tourist destination. We need younger members, that won't happen at Friendship. We have to do it at our local clubs whether it is BP dedicated or just any ole shooting club that lets em shoot those other kinds of firearms. Scouts are a great way, contact the local scout office, get your range to host troops, your range will get eagle projects in return and a bunch of thanks. My range does that and we have had 5 eagle projects completed in 2+ years to help our facility. I joined simply because Eddie May left some of his muzzle blast mags at the range on the back benchs. Get rid of your old mags, leave em at the range, they will disappear I guarantee it. I took one home, read it, loved it, joined. Shot in 3 of Eddie's matchs and now I help host scouts at a different range and I specifically let them shoot my BP guns using real BP!.

Friendship Indiana is not the reason I joined the NMLRA, friendship is the reason I joined the NMLRA and Eddie May asked me to. Ask someone to join and the membership will grow. I did, I asked my brother to join this year and we went to Friendship together. Membership grew.

My input and its free.

 

[msuspartan]

To All who have replied Thank you...

BUT......

I have read and re-read this thread and I will put my 2 cents worth in.

1. Great replies AND complaints. BUT...there are more bitches/complaints/problems than offered solutions. A problem cannot be solved without ideas to improve the situation.

2. Growth and Decline are reasons to streamline the organizations potentia/ongoing problems. A working group to listen and impliment solutions to general and specific problams, ex. the shower/toilet facilities at the campground. They ARE nasty and need to be torn down and new and larger ones installed.

3. I spent 20 years in an International medieval recreation group and growing/decline problems happened but not to the degree that is happening here. Time for people on the board to get business ideas to increase the membership with networking of other not for profit groups and work with those ideas.

4. Have a third/fourth shoot in the Northwest and Southeast areas. There are large groups with a little work and support could do something like that. It would include each region (more or less) and those not able to get to Friendship would be able to go there instead. Then once a year have a regional Championship shoot off at Friendship for a National Champion.

5.Do something new and different with the magazine. New articles, writers, how to, not so much with the budget (do that online, not in mag)
have articles from members etc. Grow with the times. Even (yes I am saying this) a article for inlines. A thicker (more pages) magaizine or even an online magazine available.

6. Get a salesman/woman to get special discounts from national companies. Just need someone to do it.

7. Time to grow up with the times. This is NOT a bunch of good ol' boys anymore. Many on this forum alone are below 45 y.o. Have articles written for youngbloods. Upgrade the magazine, upgrade the website. (not the most user friendly)upgrade the grounds, have youth/adult activities like classes on how to do this/that. When in the medieval group, at our big eventts we had classes on everything from Dancing to how to make a persona to armour making to sewing to theatre to etc. Interactive. Gets people involved.

These are a few observations/ideas to mull when the winter months are here. This is a good organization that needs to renew itself and grow by coming into the 22nd century while being proud of it's heritage.

I am a member and will continue to be one. Just because I live in Indiana is NOT the reason I am a member. I am a member because I support the sport of Blackpowder shooting whether a person dresses up in 'dem funny clothes' and the NMLRA is a big reason for this needed support. The support is needed because there are many out there who shoot, teach, build etc to make this sport a grand hobby to pass to my Son, family and friends.

Like being a member in the NRA, I am a lifetime member because there are those that will TAKE IT AWAY from me and they fight for my right to shoot, hunt teach and enjoy my hobby.

So,
how about some other ideas to promote this hobby/sport intead of a reason not to be part of it.
Your choice, but mine is to support the NMLRA so others may 'come to the darkside'. It is easy to condemn for the past problems so how about ideas to fix and grow and be part of an exciting growth.

(gets off of my soapbox)

Cheers, DonK :hatsoff:

 

1. Great replies AND complaints. BUT...there are more bitches/complaints/problems than offered solutions. A problem cannot be solved without ideas to improve the situation.

It must be kept in mind that not everyone is looking to solve the NMLRA's problems or improve it. Many people don't want to be part of it, so it is not their business or desire to solve anything. Only the people who want to improve the NMLRA need to come up with solutions. It's really okay for people to not join, or join and quit and move on - it's called "choice". :v

 

[msuspartan]

Jack,
I concur with your Sir. That is a very true and accurate statement.
I would personally prefer to see the NMLRA grow and prosper. I do not have all the answers but many problems come from a lack of doing something outside the 'Box'. The old 'We have done it this way for years and what ain't broke don't fix' is a typical culprit.

Dixie, you have the unenviable task of finding new ideas and then to get some of the old f*rts to see the light :surrender: . THAT is the crux of the problem. Getting people to open their minds and see the forest thru the trees.

Good thread tho'. Nice to see peoples thoughts on this.

Cheers, DonK

 

[tecum-tha]

The main goal of this thread was to find out about potential problems of members and non-members (who must be considered potential future members)and possible solutions to these problems.
It showed mistakes of the past which will not be repeated and offered some good discussion points about needed changes.
dixie will hopefully adress certain points at the next Board of Directors meeting and get some things worked out in the near future.
I am still working on the instructional video concept, which I think is very important, because it helps if the Association is associated with the video advice.
What we need:
1.) a volunteer moderator leading to the topic on a whole set of videos
2.) a list of important topics for novices
3.) a period setting (forest, forge ,blockhouse etc. according to the topic)
4.) some period correct volunteers who explain their technique/ gear to the viewers using the 5 W if applicable:
What where when why who
5.) a (semi)-professional HD video camera
6.) a editor/cutter with editing software

Anyone knows about credible candidates which can be approached?

 

[Trench]

The folks at Jas. Townshend just made their own movie. They might be approached to help with a project like that.

 

[JoeM57]

I'd just like to throw in my two cents worth here.

I'm a long time member of the NMLRA (over 30+ years), and I knew exactly what I was getting when I joined, even though I live 1200 miles away from Friendship, Indiana. Yes, I've been there three time with my family when we were on vacation vistiting family back east. I never competed there, I just enjoyed the folks, the boom of the muzzle loading firearms being fired, the scent and scene of white black powder smoke hanging in the air. I knew I had made the right choice in joining, even after my first trip to the National Range. (I might add that back in those days the club house served the best liver and onions!)

When I retire in seven years my wife knows where she'll find me, come Spring Nationals. Heck, we might even move to southern Indiana if I can sway her to my way of thinking?

Anyway, I do realize membership in the NMLRA is in decline. There's not to many organizations out there where membership isn't. I'll remain steady though and support the muzzle loading sports through the NMLRA, as well as their Postal Matches, Territorial Match Program, and discount buying opportunities, and the Range's as well someday.

If someday the NMLRA wanted to go to a Quarterly or Bi-Monthly Muzzle Blast magazine, that would be ok as well.

No organization and its members agree 100% with everything. Not a one! I'm willing to take the good with the bad (so to speak) as long as I always have the NMLRA, and it is there for other's to enjoy as well.

You truly do get out of any organization what you're willing to put into it. :thumbsup:

 

You truly do get out of any organization what you're willing to put into it. :thumbsup:

And besides your dues, that would be?

 

[JoeM57]

Go to the NMLRA website and find out. It's up to you to decide whether or not to join. If one feels there is nothing there for them, so be it. End of story. For me, the NMLRA has lot's of stuff that covers my interest. Not everyone has the same interest, so you need to decide for yourself. I can't do that for you. I'm not responsible for you to decide. :hatsoff:

 

Go to the NMLRA website and find out. It's up to you to decide whether or not to join. If one feels there is nothing there for them, so be it. End of story. For me, the NMLRA has lot's of stuff that covers my interest. Not everyone has the same interest, so you need to decide for yourself. I can't do that for you. I'm not responsible for you to decide. :hatsoff:

You may have misunderstood my question. You said: "You truly do get out of any organization what you're willing to put into it."

What are you "putting into it"? Do you volunteer? Do you do anything besides attend events or receive the magazine in the mail? Do you volunteer? Besides your dues, what are you "putting in"?

 

[damron]

I have just joined the NMLRA.I have been a Cast Bullet Association member since i was in my 20's(i am 45 now)and now run matches in the PNW.Our group is also slowly fading away with age.Many of the guys i started with are passed on.When i started i was the "kid" at the matches.i hoped that would have changed but i am often the youngest at the shoots by many years and it saddens me.

George

 

[Rifleman1776]

What one 'puts into' something, like an organization, is simply a figure of speech. It involves committment, time and often work. What you get out of it is subjective and personal. Satisfaction is often the only reward. Rarely is what you "get out" of it anything tangible. We exist for many reasons, some of which are to contribute, help others, experience new things and to enjoy. Your definitions of what you "get out" of something are certain to be quite different than others. Being involved in the ml game, on analysis, really doesn't make any sense. But, we all "get out" of it something of value for ourselves or we wouldn't do it at all.

 

It involves committment, time and often work.

Yep, that remains the unanswered question I asked, but it really doesn't matter. An answer is not necessary.

Thanks :hatsoff:

 

[shortstring]

Just a few thoughts:

Over & over I hear it said that we must get the youth involved in an interest so that they will take it into the future. With this in mind where are the childern of the NMLRA? Back thru the 70s, 60s, 50s & so on the childern were sumbmerged in our world. The baby boomers had families & while many of these now grown children are present here at this time, many more & I feel the majority are missing. This situation isn't about guns or any of the positives or negitives involved with our world. It's about the human instinct to rebel from the activities of our youth as we grow into adults. Along this train of thought. Tune into one of the many so called hunting shows on the tube. One of them where a small child is taken hunting. Watch something that happens when the child makes the shot, the few seconds after the shot that is. The kid will look to the parent to see how to react. The parent is pleased & so forth & the child joins into this emotion. But the kids reaction is not born out of the heart, it's done to please the parent. I feel that it's possible that many of the youth that participate in our sport are doing so to please there parents & will leave it behind as they grow older & rebel from the activities of there youth.

A lot is said about the quality of Muzzleblasts these days. Part of this problem stems from the fact that many of us have been into this sport for many years & the writing within cannot possibily be new. When we first got into this any aritical was new & interesting. A few months ago a friend dropped off a stack of old MBs & Buckskin Reports from the 70s & 80s. The same writings I found interesting at that time looked just as uninteresting as the latest magazine. It's the same mag. as it always was, we've just already read it over & over.

And it's not the fault of the NMLRA that the special seasons all over the nation created the market for the modern ML. Before the seasons those of us who were interested in trad. ML rifles hunted with them in the regular seasons. There was this misconception that the special season was for us to use. While it was true that we could use the season it's more true that anyone who could come up with suitable gun could also join in. Just as it happened in the later half of the 1800s the round ball was quickly left behind & replaced by the bullet. And many prospective additions to our sport went the way of the bullet.

One thing that can be done is to study the success of traditional archery. The wheel-less bow was as dead as Jacob Marley 30 years ago. Now it is alive & quite well. It is in part because the attitude out there that those who choose the old way are superior to a wheel bow shooter because they have chosen the hard way. We should have an ongoing message out there that the flint lock, round ball gun is there for the using if you feel you are up to the challenge. It's not for every one, but those of you who are good enough, who are made of the right stuff, who look inward to find success as opposed to buying success will find the tradional round ball gun up to the challenge. This, in part is the message that the long bow is feeding off from.

Like many before in this thread I don't offer much of an answer, just some thoughts.

Paul Griffith

 

[jethro224]

Just an FYI for anyone who want's to know;
I recently heard that the primitive camp fees have just recently been reduced by quite a bit. The information I got said it won't cost more than $50 to camp all week. There's a good start! :thumbsup:

 

[Keb]

Well, the cost to camp has been lowered. My gripe is why was it so high to begin with? As I see it, the assn. never did much for the primitive side except make them pay for everything with no real benefit in return. It was always about the money. Now the good old boys are getting fewer in numbers and they need more money to keep their little playground going. So somebody comes up with the idea to try to "bring them back".

I remember when the NMLRA use to sponsor rondyvoos. I don't know how good of a job they did but they did it. Some "mismanagement" was going on so they (someone) created the NRLHF. Now they don't even mention the NRLHF on their web site. They do give (I don't know if it's a free ad) each NRLHF rondyvoo advertisement (maybe 2) in "Muzzle Blast" but that's it.

I'm sorry I feel this way. I really am. I once volunteered to run the shooting at a national rondyvoo back before the foundation days. I was required to take Range Officer Training at Friendship for a slight fee. The class was only offered during the Spring Championships. OK. I take off work, drive 375 miles one way to their mandatory class. I find where the classroom is and go in and sit down. There were maybe 10 other people in the class. I can't remember the cost but I'm guessing it was around $35.00. I was all paying attention to the 2 instructors but wasn't hearing much on range officer training. The more I listened the more I thought I was in the wrong class. So I asked one of the instructors and they confirmed my suspicions. I asked where the range officer class was. They said there wasn't enough people to have the class so they put me in this other class. WHAT? But I won't be a certified range officer without it. I won't be able to run the range at a NMLRA rondyvoo and we won't have a shooting program at the upcoming rondyvoo. They assured me it would be OK as long as I finished this class. So much for the importance of their training. It was all about the money... Still is, IMHO.

Former member # 071***

 

[tecum-tha]

@Keb:
Sorry, nothing else than allegations from long times past.
The link to the NRLHF is here: http://www.nmlra.org/shoots.asp?Cat=Rendezvous

The communication procedures have changed and will change in the future and Bob Voegele, the President, adressed that in his last "Message" in Muzzleblasts.
I think the leadership of the organization got the idea now. Now it is up to us to fill these new ideas with life.