Observations at the NMLRA fall championships

[flintlock50]

Jethro: You are correct it was changed to $30.00 per site not per camper for the first weekend or $50.00 per site for the week. Also lowered shooter registration fees, $5.00 for 1 day or $20.00 for more than one day lowered from the $30.00 you were charged in Sept. We are trying to increase participation by making it a little easier on your wallet. Hopefully more changes to come.

 

[jethro224]

Good deal! :thumbsup:
Thanks for your efforts dixie. :hatsoff:

 

[Keb]

@keb:
Sorry, nothing else than allegations from long times past.

You are right. Nothing but allegations from a long time ago. I'll not make any more. It doesn't do any good.

Former member #071***

 

[Rifleman1776]

A lot is said about the quality of Muzzleblasts these days. Part of this problem stems from the fact that many of us have been into this sport for many years & the writing within cannot possibily be new. When we first got into this any aritical was new & interesting. A few months ago a friend dropped off a stack of old MBs & Buckskin Reports from the 70s & 80s. The same writings I found interesting at that time looked just as uninteresting as the latest magazine. It's the same mag. as it always was, we've just already read it over & over.

You are absolutely right. I have said this many times. I have a publishing background and recognize just how stale the format of MB has become. The magazine is often the only contact members have with the Association. If it is not attention getting and holding it is nothing.
As you say, a copy of MB from 40, or more, years ago could easily pass for one published last month.

 

[msuspartan]

Keb, you sound like the NMLRA was a bully and beat you up in the back yard and now are trying to gang up on past aggressions.

I agree with the magazine problems and there are many. (hint, hint, hint!!!!!) And if it seems like it is 'all about the money' consider that your membership helps to try to spread the word of BP shooting.

Here in this forum we snub the inline (and since we are traditional here, good for us) but it is apart of BP shooting now. The magazine could have a section on that view. I do not have a problem with this. Gives another opportunity to convert them :wink:

Dixie, Thank you Sir for listening and come to the Connor Longrifle show in Feb just north of Indianapolis, and bring Bob too.(he usually comes) We can talk about some ideas and directions. Bob is a doer not a sit on my a## and revel in the Pres. position. I think with folks like you we can find ways to improve AND grow.


For those who have not gone to Friendship, come on down. It is a great time.

Cheers, DonK

 

[Keb]

Not really trying to gang up on anybody in particular. I don't agree with them or their philosophy, then or now.

former member #071***

 

[tecum-tha]

I just got the book from John Schippers on "Engraving Historical Firearms". I also re-newed my membership and as a NMLRA member I really got a deal on it. So the allegations, that there are no benefits that come with a membership is not true. Still, I will pay the Association the balance to a normal priced membership through their membership donation program.
The book is really good, especially the tool section with very good drawings and sketches.
The book is worth its price,especially with all the full color pictures of engraved guns.
In the engineering world, there are much worse books for much more money out there.
Currently I also buy some "beater" percussion rifles and shorten the stocks. The LOP will be 12.0 -12.5/8" and those guns will be used to teach boys and girls if I have interested candidates. The guns have set triggers or adjustable triggers and thus it is hard to mess up a shot by jerking the trigger. Most of the guns will be .50 cal percussion guns. With a light 40-50 grain load, these guns shoot great and accurate easily to 50 yards and hardly kick despite the larger caliber. Depending on the brand,some will be outfitted with ghost ring sights and other will have open sights. I hope they may find some use during the youth programs as well being suitable for smaller sized kids which otherwise can not really handle gun.There is no need to start kids with a stinking youth inline rifle....

 

[Skychief]

One thing that can be done is to study the success of traditional archery. The wheel-less bow was as dead as Jacob Marley 30 years ago. Now it is alive & quite well. It is in part because the attitude out there that those who choose the old way are superior to a wheel bow shooter because they have chosen the hard way. We should have an ongoing message out there that the flint lock, round ball gun is there for the using if you feel you are up to the challenge. It's not for every one, but those of you who are good enough, who are made of the right stuff, who look inward to find success as opposed to buying success will find the tradional round ball gun up to the challenge. This, in part is the message that the long bow is feeding off from.



Paul Griffith

I have read through this whole thread and the above caught my eye.

You see, I run in a circle of friends that are ardent traditional bowmen. They (we) travel nearly every weekend to 3d shoots (woodswalks) within the region from March through September. We also attend a weekly league shoot indoors October through April.

These shoots are very well attended. As then above poster mentions, maybe we can learn something from the popularity of traditional archery these days.

I do know that in most states, archers get the first crack at deer hunting. This opportunity to hunt "unpressured" deer is not lost on the archery hunters. Perhaps if more states would have an early TRADITIONAL muzzleloader season, it would attract some new enthusiasts. Does the NMLRA get involved with such regulations?

I also know that the trad archers enjoy two quality magazines (Traditional Bowhunting and Primal Archer). Both of these rags offer something fresh and exciting with every issue. Traditional Bowhunting is possibly the finest magazine available regarding ethical and traditional hunting ever offered. MuzzleBlast and MuzzleLoader pale in comparison. I take each by the way. Better reading would create curiosity and enthusiasm from newbies.

Along those lines, I have a mountain of old Muzzleblast magazines. They date back to the 1960's. I am of the opinion that the older MB's were better than the later-day issue (Bevel Bros. excluded). Any of you remember reading Max Vickery?

I have wondered if the magazine NEEDS to include all the organizational budget numbers and each field representative, etc, etc, in every issue. Maybe they could list such things on the website and free up some space for more interesting reading, or, include these things less often.

A long-winded way of saying we could benefit as a sport (pasttime?) as the traditional archers are with some better publications.

I mentioned going to the 3d shoots with my friends. Part of the fun is that no two courses are alike. Also, each shoot has many very novel targets. Many courses offer a "fun shoot" each summer that the young ones go wild for. We can learn from this.

I have attended the National Traditional Archery shoot in Cloverdale Indiana in June for years. People come from all around and kids are everywhere! The kids can be found shooting flu-flu arrows at aerial targets thrown by a vendor endlessly. Fellows take chances shooting at a standing grizzly target over 100 yards away. A payout from the kitty is made with a good enough hit. Vendors and merchants busily sell their wares all through the day. Every year, kids are given a self bow made right before their eyes. FREE! There is something for all ages when traditional archery families show up at Cloverdale. Compton Michigan's is supposed to be as good or better.

The IBO (International Bowhunters Organization) has a triple crown shoot each year. These are shot at Bedford Indiana, the Pennsylvania and Ohio. They turn into family events and attendance is incredible. Traditional archers are just like other men....they like to compete and shoot with one another. For bragging rights or other prizes.

Where am I going with all this? I can't say that I have a destination....


Like I said though....the above caught my attention and I do think we could benefit from learning more about the archery popularity of today.

Skychief, NMLRA member.

 

[Rifleman1776]

In rebuttal, so is the NRA and my other question is, What can be done to MAKE it better?
What ideas to make it more attractive to the others out there?
A west coast office/branch?

Like Dixie said, Ideas, I live here in Indiana and there is NO state BP association. I have tried to get one started but people here think, the NMLRA is here so do we really need one?

Cheers, DonK

There is nothing preventing you from starting a local chapter. Later you could expand to a State club.
I started a local chapter, in the early 1970s, that shot at the Friendship range. It functioned for quite a few years. Now, as I understand it, there is a club at nearby Batesville.
All that is needed to do it is to do it.

 

So the allegations, that there are no benefits that come with a membership is not true.

Benefits and value are subjective. I think some people are saying that there is "not enough value" for them. That's life and holds true for everything we spend our money on. Individuals make up their own mind whether something is "worth it" to them, regardless of how others feel. If someone thinks they are getting a good or bad deal, that's their call and it has nothing to do with what others think.

 

[tecum-tha]

Yes,some people feel they must at least break even to justify the membership costs. For those people a membership is not attractive.But as it is with every organization: With membership comes privileges and duties.Because the NMLRA is a national organization, it is harder to perform the duties for people who live far away from the NMLRA locations. That's why the duties are performed more over the budgetary side in my opinion. Like in almost every club, where you can buy out your duty time if you desire or can't perform your duties because of work times etc.

 

[msuspartan]

Rifleman,
I am with you there about the club. I am in two and have attempted to get interest in a State BP association but the interest is thin at best. Everyone loves the idea but do not want to get out of their comfort zone. Sad but true. Most say that is what the NMLRA is for. So completely wrong as Mr. Voegle will tell you. Will still try though.

Cheers, DonK

 

[tecum-tha]

Sorry, but too many different organizations for the same interest will only make the membership base thinner for everybody. I see the local clubs have recruiting problems and the NMLRA has recruiting problems. Why creating another organization? As to hunting regulations and other state affairs influence goes: In IN the game comission will pass everything if itvagely promises more $$. See the latest changes to inlude the cross-gun in "early archery season". Flat out disgusting. Any changes back to more traditional ways will not work.
With the inclusion of inlines in the ML season, you have too many modern hunters oppose to loose their "third week of rifle season".

 

[Larry Pletcher]

This topic is rather disappointing. I first came to Friendship in 1977. I remember the water shortages, motorcycle gangs, Max Vickery, high water, etc. Times have changed and so have I. My tipi is now a tin one. I shoot less, talk to friends more, drool over fine rifles, and gather ideas for more testing, timing, and slow motion video.

As far as keeping everyone pleased - IMHO that is impossibe. We have become one issue members or non-members with thoughts like:
"I'm not coming back til the water problem is solved."
"I have to park too far away from Primitive."
"They let cars park too close to Primitive."
"Saw an inline ad in MB. Never coming back."
"Somebody wronged me 35 years ago-never comong back."
"Scopes on slug guns are stupid - not coming back."
"They added an inline match - not coming back."

These comments are aimed at no one in particular or everyone in general. But, as long as we separate ourselves with ideas like this, the BOD will never be successful. They could walk on water and we would complain that they can't swim.

Obviously there are problems. The lack of young folks is an important one. Lowering costs is a start. We can't, however fight an economy with lowering prices alone. Likely gas costs is a much bigger problem. An economic improvement will help.
An organized internet footprint will help reach the youth - not just a web page, but you tube, facebook, and other social networking sites. BTW what do you think 15 year old Jack or Jill will say when they can't text their friends from Friendship every 5 minutes. Do you expect them back? Texting is a pain, and it won't bring them in in flocks - but no texting will likely keep them away.
I realize that I'm not solving the problems, but I do think that our "one issue" nature is huge. Declining memberships effect all clubs. My own club has 70+ members, 6 show up for workdays, and maybe 5 for shoots. They're all local and too busy.
Oh, I forgot - if I can't bring my dog in the spring, I'm not coming. (Just teasing; my dog would be far happier at home.)

This is all my opinion - that and 50 cents won't buy a Coke anymore.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[akapennypincher]

I honestly know of several ideas the NMLRA tried to boost Membership about 10 years ago. Both ideas had incentives for Members who would Sell NMLRA Memberships.

The first one was call 9 in 99, it was geared toward an NMLRA Member selling Nine NMLRA Memberships, and for Each Level of Nine you got a Prize. This was in 1999.

Than at the end of the campaign all people with Nine NMLRA Memberships sold, got one chance for each Nine Membership sold at a Drawing FOR A FREE LIFETIME NMLRA MEMBERSHIP.

Lets say they did give a FREE LIFETIME NMLRA MEMBERSHIP as promised, but few NMLRA Members Member sold much in the way of memberships. Think the Drawing was one by a Indiana Field Representative who did real well selling Membership at the National Shoot.

The second one was call 2 in 2000, it was geared toward an NMLRA Member selling 2 Memberships, and for Each @ NMLRA Memberships Sold again you got a chance in at a drawing for a FREE LIFETIME NMLRA MEMBERSHIP.

Than at the end of the campaign all people with TWO NMLRA Memberships sold got one chance for each Nine Membership sold at a Drawing FOR A FREE LIFETIME NMLRA MEMBERSHIP.

Since 2000 NMLRA Membership is shall we say not growing. The change to get a A FREE LIFETIME NMLRA MEMBERSHIP did not induce most member to participate in the Membership Drives.

BTW in 99 I sold more 27 NMLRA Memberships but did not win the drawing.

Part of the problem with the NMLRA is the same problem with most organizations. Few members doing most of the work, a lot of people have ideas to make more work for the few doing the work, but if you ask those with ideas to head committees, or help out you get few new set of hands.

Our private range were I use to belong years ago, always had RANGE CLEAN UP DAYS. It was always the same 10-15 Members who showed to clean up. our Membership was over 300 Members.

Our local Disable American Veterans Chapter is the same thing, 450 +++ Members. Always the same 12-20 doing the work.

It is call APATHY!

 

[Denny/Oh]

I agree with Pletch.

There has long been division {just like every other organization}between the different factions at Friendship. Pistol,rifle,shotgun or primitive vs. them other guys across the creek {crick in S. Indiana}. If they ever figure out they need to work together they may have a chance, if not,well.

I went to the shoots in the 60's and joined in the early 70's. There have been some financial problems and some monumental crowds that caused water ,traffic and other problems. Its a small rural town of what, 250 people ? Keep everyone happy? Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rifleman,
I am with you there about the club. I am in two and have attempted to get interest in a State BP association but the interest is thin at best. Everyone loves the idea but do not want to get out of their comfort zone. Sad but true. Most say that is what the NMLRA is for. So completely wrong as Mr. Voegle will tell you. Will still try though.

Cheers, DonK

I understand, well....no I don't. But I do relate to what you are saying. I don't understand why folks do not show an interest. When I was the Arkansas Field Rep in the late 70s and early 80s I helped start and charter 16 clubs and boosted membership. Eventually, all but one of those clubs folded. Another that was active long before I came around is still thriving. Two of the old ones have recently revived and another exists in name only.
I suggest, if you have a place to shoot, just call some friends who are ml'ers and tell them you are having an informal match. See wat happens, you might actually get a club started.

 

[tecum-tha]

The idea of going to sporting shows etc. and sell memberships is a short-sighted approach in my opinion,because the retention rate is probably not very high.
Unless someone shoots a muzzleloader actively or is very interested in the history of muzzeloaders etc., his membership will not last very long.
Another point is, that there a concurrent organizations to the NMLRA present in various muzzlelaoding related topics. I would like to mention the CLA (Contemporary Longrifle Association) as an example, which could be the "historical craftmen guild" of the NMLRA.
The CLA has its own fairs, banquests etc.
Quite a few craftsmen are probably members in both associations, because of different reasons.
One is the ability to market goods over the internet in an organized manner.
But both associations can only exist if there is a continued interest in traditional muzzleloaders. More than likely, vendors and craftsmen will visit the shows they make the most money. But now, they have more choice of events to go to.
"If you cut the cake into too many pieces, no one will go home satisfied at the end..."

 

[akapennypincher]

I honestly think the NMLRA has about maybe 10 year, and it will be something that was. Most of the people on the BOD are not representative of the entire USA. They are from East of the Mississippi, or with in the 3-5 STATES CLOSE TO FRIENDSHIP.

The BOD has way too many members, and IMHO to operate more effectively should be cut to 12 or LESS. How many major companies, or corporation have a Board of Directors with over 20 MEMBERS?

I would also say the NMLRA needs to realize it is 2011, going on 2012, and people have way more recreation opportunities than they did in 1933. Change with times, or you will be like the guy making Buggy Whips.

Last Observation is the NMLRA NEEDS to take Firearms Safety Seriously. I was appalled the first time I attended a National Shoot, and realized how few checks, and balances were in place to maintain a Safe Event. Muzzleloaders in many ways are way more dangerous than Modern Firearms, and I personally like the way SASS holds safety meeting each day. Of their Winter Range to go over safety procedures. If you miss the Safety Meeting, you don't shoot that day.

I have made the observation that some Muzzle Loading New bee could go to Trader Rows, Buy a Rifle, and all the stuff to make it fire. Powder, Cap, Ball, etc.

Go pay a Registration FEE, go buy Targets, go to the VENUE to Shoot. Make a big goof, Shoot someone by accident, blow up his rifle from too much powder have shrapnel party, or? When the LAWYERS got involved because some one was SERIOUSLY HURT or Killed. The Lawyer would have a Field Day when they found all the loop holes to present to a Tort Jury.

 

[tecum-tha]

I will give the NMLRA much longer than 10 years, but probably not in the form it exists today. It will be a smaller organization, more slender and budgetarely streamlined. Some activities will be dropped, some others may be added. Normal transformation of an organization in a changing environment.
Yes, there are more recreational offerings today than 1933, but much more people probably have a budget for hobby activities than 1933 as well, so the argument is not valid.
Gun safety:
Gun safety is taken seriously enough on the range.
Yes, you could be a total newbie and could buy everything despite black powder unless you're a NMLRA member.Now, if you would be a new member you would be even able to buy black powder as well and targets and such and go shoot. In order to buy powder you need to be 21 and thus are considered an adult. An adult is expected to behave like one in a responsible way. If not, he will be held accountable. Does this scenario happen? No, not without running into someone noticing that you never handled a ML gun. As a newbie you will stand out and you'll be watched with eagle eyes by the range officer.
Safety is taken very seriously and in group events like the "woodswalk", everyone watches everybody else.