Original Remington Zouave loads

[RonK]

Dear All,
Need some help with a proper load or bulllet for a Original Remington Zouave.
I use at the moment the RCBS .575 500 grain Minies with 70 grain Swiss 3 (FF). If I going down in charge (50 or 60 grains) it will not hit the target. I’ve read in other topics here that they use 45 grains and have good results. So what I do wrong?

Best,

Ron

 

[dave951]

Dear All,
Need some help with a proper load or bulllet for a Original Remington Zouave.
I use at the moment the RCBS .575 500 grain Minies with 70 grain Swiss 3 (FF). If I going down in charge (50 or 60 grains) it will not hit the target. I’ve read in other topics here that they use 45 grains and have good results. So what I do wrong?

Best,

Ron

Did you actually measure your bore size? Getting a minie to shoot acceptably well isn't rocket science-
1)PURE lead minies
2)Size to .001 under actual bore size
3)Lube with beeswax/lard (crisco,tallow, etc)

Assuming your gun hasn't been abused, this should get you going. Past that, look down the bore for leading.

 

[RonK]

Hi Dave,

I measured the bore with a caliper 0.580 the minie is 0.578.
I use SPG lube
I think my lead is the problem I used airgunpellets and airgun slugs together with pure lead, I need to make new pure lead ones.

Thanks,

Ron

 

[dave951]

Hi Dave,

I measured the bore with a caliper 0.580 the minie is 0.578.
I use SPG lube
I think my lead is the problem I used airgunpellets and airgun slugs together with pure lead, I need to make new pure lead ones.

Thanks,

Ron

SPG is for black powder cartridges and doesn't work well with minies. Make up a bit of beeswax/lard lube (NOT paraffin) and dip the rings only.

 

[tenngun]

I don’t know if it makes a difference, after all it’s only 45 grains, but I understand the service was the 460.
And a sizer works best to get them right. I had one with one of them new fangled guns

 

[RonK]

Thanks Dave I make some beewax / lardlube.

@tenngun : probably there is a difference in the replica’s and original ones. I’ve read an seen that the replica’s performing well with lighter loads.

Ron

 

[tenngun]

Thanks Dave I make some beewax / lardlube.

@tenngun : probably there is a difference in the replica’s and original ones. I’ve read an seen that the replica’s performing well with lighter loads.

Ron

My best shooting with mine was a .575 ball and thin patch. The three grove rifeling in todays I THINK is smaller then the old, and though 60 is light for a ball it shot my best groups.

 

[RonK]

Yes I think that that the new made barrels are smaller in diameter.
I am thinking to use some Cerrosafe to get a correct measurement. For a breech loader it’s a easy job, I need to find out how to do this by a muzzleloader.

Ron

 

[dave951]

Yes I think that that the new made barrels are smaller in diameter.
I am thinking to use some Cerrosafe to get a correct measurement. For a breech loader it’s a easy job, I need to find out how to do this by a muzzleloader.

Ron

Use plug gauges. They're like $6USD each on Amazon. You need .575, .577, .579, and .581. The original barrels were close to .575. The repops, not so much. Most repop barrels are in the 579+ range

 

[RonK]

With plug gauges I can’t measure the grooves.

Ron

 

[dave951]

With plug gauges I can’t measure the grooves.

Ron

Not necessary to measure the groves

 

[RonK]

Ha okay Dave. Measuring bore diameter from a muzzleloader is different then a breechloader.

Thanks

Ron

 

[dave951]

Ha okay Dave. Measuring bore diameter from a muzzleloader is different then a breechloader.

Thanks

Ron

Yup, for minies it is. The rifling depth is shallow to allow for skirt expansion. Breechloaders use a more modern technique

 

[RonK]

By knowing this now. Measuring becomes a lot easier. Many thanks Dave

 

[RonK]

Dave now I am thinking about it you are damn right. Groove measuring makes no sense cause the minie has to be smaller than the smallest inside diameter otherwise the minie doesn’t fit.

Ron

 

[Grenadier1758]

But you want shallow grooves for the Minie' ball to fully expand into the grooves. Deep grooves and you end up with gas cutting and poor accuracy.

 

[TreeMan]

The easiest way I’ve gotten civil war “minie” rifles to shoot accurately is to use a patched round ball. Measuring, sizing, buying ten molds and low powder charges are a big old fat headache. I have a Parker hale enfield, and a Richmond carbine. Both will shoot ragged holes at 50yards with a .570 roundball and 60 grains of 3F. I’ll even mail you a sack of .570s and .562 roundballs to fix your problems.

 

[RonK]

@Grenadier1758 thanks for your reply.

@TreeMan You got me thinking now. I going to buy some roundballs and patches to try.
Thanks for your offer but I live in the Netherlands so that would be way too expensive.

Best,

Ron

 

[PastorB]

Several good suggestions already posted. I don't have a Zouave, but I do have and original 1861 Springfield and a Colt Special Model 1861, also original. Neither would group on a plate at 25 yards with the commonly available, all purpose .575 Minie. However, both are tack drivers with a .580 bullet. Patched balls are also very accurate, but point of impact is around 24" high above point of aim in my muskets at 50 yards, whereas using 510 gr. Minies, they hit about 5" high. I order my Minie bullets/balls from a fellow named Pat Kaboskey, aka the Civil War Bullet Man. A internet search should provide his information. He lubes them, and sizes them to whatever diameter you desire, and I have been very pleased with his bullets. I use the standard service charge of 60 grains of 3f, which is a finer granulation than originally loaded cartidges, but I get fine results.

 

[Ozark Mtn Muzzleloader]

Your minie needs to be pure lead & nothing else. This is likely the root of your problem. Next, .575” is probably too small for your reproduction Zouave. In most, .580” is more appropriate. Yes, measuring will tell you for sure but upping your diameter a bit will certainly yield better results. I found best accuracy with mine at .580” pure lead 500 grain minie using 65 grains of Goex FFG. So much easier to load & more convenient than a patched ball. CW rifled muskets weren’t made for patched balls. Sure you can use them, you can also ice skate uphill but that doesn’t mean it makes sense to do it. The purpose of the minie is to provide the ease of loading of a smooth bore with the accuracy of a rifle & with much more energy on target than a patched ball. I’d bet you a dollar that if you tried a .578 or .580 pure lead minie & about 60 ish grains of powder, the rifle would surprise you. I found accuracy dropped considerably with powder charges over that as it damaged the projectile’s thin skirts on the base of the bullet. Normally the hardest part of shooting CW muskets is either finding a load that shoots to the sights or modifying the sights into regulation. Lodgewood makes a rear sight blank for the Zouave that you can file as needed to zero it with your load once you find one that is accurate.
PS My apologies for missing that your rifle is an original & not a reproduction. All of my post still applies with the possible exception of the bore size as I’ve never measured or fired an original.