PA Conical vs 54 RB Advice

[Indy Durtdigger]

That's one I can't answer. I just went out and mic'ed the diameter of the Minie's ....but they are prepped for shooting. I bump them out to a diameter of .550 plus or minus a few thousands.

I do know that without bumping the base the Minie will drop to the bottom of my .54 barrel with practically no resistance. So, if you know the diameter of the lands, that will tell you something.

I'm going to attempt to memory hole your method. Wish me luck.

 

[Bad Karma]

I have a Santa Fe Hawken with the .53 cal bore and have wondered if there was a possibility of finding a conical that would load and shoot well from it.
My barrels twist is 1:66 I believe, and I have measured the groove to groove diameter at .533", or maybe that was the land to land diameter... I'll have to double check that.
One more question for @ChuckJonesWagon, do you know the diameter of the as cast Lyman 533-476 before expanding the base?
Regards

Take a look at Tom’s website Accurate Molds dot com. He can modify .54 caliber designs to fit your bore.

 

[pchwcf50110]

Take a look at Tom’s website Accurate Molds dot com. He can modify .54 caliber designs to fit your bore.

"Tom" doesn't work or own the place anymore

 

[Bad Karma]

"Tom" doesn't work or own the place anymore

Huh? Since when?


Regardless, I’m sure Accurate Molds can provide a short .53 caliber mold suitable for @kelvinator’s Santa Fe Hawken.

Maybe something like this one.

 

[pchwcf50110]

"Tom" sold the business about 2 years ago. His real name is Larry.

 

[kelvinator]

Huh? Since when?


Regardless, I’m sure Accurate Molds can provide a short .53 caliber mold suitable for @kelvinator’s Santa Fe Hawken.

Maybe something like this one.
View attachment 367935

That looks very interesting and I thank you for the link.
I slugged the bore on my SF Hawken and have a bore of .532" with rifling depth of .010" for a total groove to groove of .552"

 

[Steve Wagner]

I have killed several deer with PA .50 conicals out of two different 1/48 Hawkens. They are killers and exit. If they shoot well in your 1/60 I wouldn't hesitate to use them. From the wound channels, they seem to expand well too. Good luck. SW

 

[Bad Karma]

That looks very interesting and I thank you for the link.
I slugged the bore on my SF Hawken and have a bore of .532" with rifling depth of .010" for a total groove to groove of .552"

If it was me I might find something like this 370 grain bullet, (https://muzzleloader-bullets.com/product/54-caliber/ ) size them to .531” and see how they fly. I suspect you’d need a stout charge 90 grains or more and I’d suggest an oversized card or wool wad under the bullet. Probably wouldn’t remain stable for really long range but it might prove the concept before you drop a hundred fifty bucks on a mold.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

If it was me I might find something like this 370 grain bullet, (https://muzzleloader-bullets.com/product/54-caliber/ ) size them to .531” and see how they fly. I suspect you’d need a stout charge 90 grains or more and I’d suggest an oversized card or wool wad under the bullet. Probably wouldn’t remain stable for really long range but it might prove the concept before you drop a hundred fifty bucks on a mold.View attachment 368320

If this bullet has a solid, flat base as opposed to a hollow expanding base, then I’d suspect it won’t be consistently accurate.

Just my experience from shooting flat base Lee Real Bullets vs the hollow base Minie.

 

[Bad Karma]

If this bullet has a solid, flat base as opposed to a hollow expanding base, then I’d suspect it won’t be consistently accurate.

Just my experience from shooting flat base Lee Real Bullets vs the hollow base Minie.

I shoot almost nothing but flat base bullets from various calibers from .40 to .54 and have had no trouble attaining consistent accuracy for hunting or targets. I do shoot one .40 caliber hollow based paper patched bullet and it’s a great little antelope or target bullet.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I shoot almost nothing but flat base bullets from various calibers from .40 to .54 and have had no trouble attaining consistent accuracy for hunting or targets. I do shoot one .40 caliber hollow based paper patched bullet and it’s a great little antelope or target bullet.

I should have qualified my response as all barrels like what they like. Powder type/charge, lube, etc all make a difference. As does bullet weight and style, and BH.

My opinion was based on just the Lee Real.

 

[morehops52]

I just haven’t found any conicals for 1:60 twist for 54. I don’t want to get into casting my own at this time

You won't likely find conicals for 1:60 twist as they need a faster twist. 1:48 seems to be the most popular made twist for a CONICAL / RB compromise. Might i suggest looking for a used 54 or 50 Lyman GP Hunter? It's faster twist 1:32 (?) is much better for conicals and you can forget about trying to work out a rb/patch/bp combo that works. I bought a T./C 54 Maxi ball mold and cast up a lifetime supply then sold everything. My GPH shoots Maxis very well and you have plenty of knockdown for an elk which is why I orig bought mine. Deer don't mind at all but for pronghorn I would probably go 50.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I just haven’t found any conicals for 1:60 twist for 54. I don’t want to get into casting my own at this time

Did you read my post #8 in this thread?

 

[morehops52]

Just browsed ML supply sites. 54 ammo is readily available without casting your own.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

A few forum members have ask me how I "bump" out the base of a 54 cal Minie. So, I thought I'd post it here in case anyone else would want to know. Now, you can certainly change up what I have done, and there's no guarantee your .54 will shoot them like my .54 does.

BTW, I use 100gr FF BP for the load. It's a stout load. I also am using a new Green Mountain barrel. I have no idea if other less quality barrels (and I don't refer to Rice Barrels or Coltrain barrels) can hold up using that load under the Minie. (That's my disclaimer)

Ok, so here's the procedure I use. First (1st pic) I use a Lee 44-mag bullet (not brass) sizer die. Now, I don;t use the die, but I use the little bullet "post" "push piece" (as I don't know what that little piece that snaps into the shell holder is called) ....see pic #2...

Then in pic #3 (which I don't have the die seated in this Lee Press. I normally use an RCBS with quick change bushings) But I screw the Lee Universal Flare die with the "fat" flare bushing and I push the Minie into the flare die and give it a small bump. Now....the nose of the Minie is sitting on the push piece as you are going to push the hollow cavity into the flare die. You will get the hang of the "how much" after you do half a dozen or so. And you will get a Minie to stick in the die on occasion.....so I recommend DON'T lube them first. I keep a small brass hammer beside my bench and when\if one get's stuck a few light taps on the side of the press usually drops the Minie. The worse case scenario is you have to take the die apart.

I also believe that the brand of Lube is very important. I use SPG lube on all these Minie's.

The last pic is one of the Minie's looking from the base. The top one is pre-sized and the bottom post sized. As you can see the procedure keeps the Minie nice and round like you want them to be. The bump out to just over .540 in diameter. That works in my barrel. I'd recommend you slug your barrel to determine the land to land distance.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm thinking you are not getting a seal with a clean barrel.

Two things. Try bumping the powder charge up ~10 grains, that may get the bullet base to expand and seal, and/or use a lubed felt wad under the conical.

How close to a max charge are you now?

I have good luck in a 54 GM barrel but it's fast twist with the Hornady 425gr GP conicals 90gr FFg and a wad.

In my 50 fast GM barrel the discontinued Buffalo bullets, HP hollow base, 385 gr, wad and 70-90 gr FFg