Paper patch accuracy

[fleener]

what size is your finished wrapped bullet?

Do you think a finished size of .448 or .449 would work? I know I have both sizes.



fleener

 

[Ranch 13]

What is the twist in your barrel and what is the length of your bullet? Using a bullet to long for the twist can deal a person all manner of fits.
Are you using a false muzzle to start the bullets concentric to the bore?
Using that heavy paper the bullet may not be engraving well.
Might want to go into that barrel with a tight fitting patch soaked in pure gum spirits of turpentine and see if you're pulling any lead.

 

[cannonball1]

fleener, I mic'ed it. crossed the lands it was .450 and the grooves it was .458. My bullets were wrapped to the .450 and loads with a little resistance. As mentioned the bare bullet is .442 with the computer paper being .004 thick also making that a total of .450. I thought maybe the slick bullet might be spinning against the paper so I recently started slightly knurling the bullets. Not sure it did anything except getting rid of some of my flyers which may have indicated that may be a factor.

Ranch, The twist was 24". I am shooting a 400 grain bullet with this barrel which was the most accurate between a 350 to 450 grain bullets and that was also what the Miller coefficient recommended. No false muzzle and I don't see a sign of lead unless a patch tears which is very rare then I do. One thing to remember is the single wrap system is grouping much better than a double wrap system.

Maybe 1 1/2" group is all this gun and me are able to shoot. Though In the past I have shot better groups with it.

 

[Ranch 13]

Are you positive you're not getting gas blow by , and gas cutting the base and or sides of the bullet? Might try an extra wad like a felt wad and see if that helps.

 

[cannonball1]

I sure there isn't any blow by. I am using a .060 polywad and have tried a combination of wads.

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, Thanks for your offer, but I think .449 is to small. I might try a .002 bigger mold(.444) and get a .450 sizer. The 9# onion skin is a little over .0015 thick. What do you think?

 

[Ranch 13]

A 444 diameter slick wet wrapped in 9 lb paper should come out right at .450 diameter.

 

[fleener]

you could give it a go and see. Just depends on how much money you want to spend and how much the accuracy means to you.

Fleener

 

[fleener]

Eterry

I am shooting an original Rigby and 2 custom contemporary Alex Henry's.

The PP bullet I am using is the one on the left. The others are what I cast for my 12 bore rifle that I ended up not using.

No secrets. I think long range shooters are very open with sharing what does and does not work for them.

Fleener

 

[fleener]

not sure why, but I get a error warning when I try and post a picture. I did a refresh and that did not help.

Fleener

 

[cannonball1]

you could give it a go and see. Just depends on how much money you want to spend and how much the accuracy means to you.

Fleener

For hunting of which I am doing less and less of, a six inch plate at 100 would be fine. For target shooting of which I am doing more and more of, a dime at 100 would cover it. The money, I'll have to think about that for a minute.

 

[John Duckitt]

If there is no lead coming out on your cleaning jag, make sure the wad is going in straight. Lead stripping off in the barrel can do some nasty things, but that is not usually the problem. If there is leading, it will continually strip the paper off the bullet and compound the problem. Use lube on the patch, and see if the group improves.

 

[Eterry]

I mostly hunt with my rifles but i still want as much accuracy as i can get. My friend's modern rifle fell over yesterday and he was checking zero at 56 yards off a solid bench. I shot his rifle a few times to get over the jitters then got my Buffalo hunter and shot 3.
After the 3rd shot he started cussing a blue streak. I walked down and had shot the prettiest cloverleaf u ever saw. Like a dummy i didn't take a pic.

 

[cannonball1]

Just got back from the range where I had a friend shoot my gun with the 36" scope. Here is his shooting results with my gun: 200 yards, 90 Grain Swiss, 540 grain bullet, Chase single wrap paper with a polywad over the powder. With the knurled bullet three shoots 1 1/2" and the other two shots made a 3 1/2" group. With the slick bullets, three shots about the same 1 3/4" group, the forth shot was 4" and the fifth shot was a flyer making the 5 shot group at 7". I didn't look at each group until we shot all five shots at each target, so we didn't know the sequence of the shots. This friend is one of the better shots, so beyond this I would say the shooting is similar to mine. The fun is experimenting in combination of loads with BP so that is where I am at - try something new.

By the way I asked him if we was interested in shooting at a target at 700 yards which even I have never done. I got my trusty cell phone out with the shooting app. Screwed the scope up a little over 1/2" at the back. He shot and hit the target first try.

 

[fleener]

There is nothing wrong with a 3.5" group at 200 yards. You would be shooting X's if they were in the center. Please keep in mind that I bet it took you 15 minutes or more to shoot 5 shots, and I also bet that the conditions had some slight changes over that 15 minutes, and could account for the 3.5" group.

Kinda fun shooting at long range and hitting the target. So did you try shooting at 700 yards as well?

Fleener

 

[cannonball1]

There is nothing wrong with a 3.5" group at 200 yards. You would be shooting X's if they were in the center. Please keep in mind that I bet it took you 15 minutes or more to shoot 5 shots, and I also bet that the conditions had some slight changes over that 15 minutes, and could account for the 3.5" group.

Kinda fun shooting at long range and hitting the target. So did you try shooting at 700 yards as well?

Fleener

I didn't shoot. After we got through with the 200 yard target, I only had one odd ball shot of 1 1/2F pre-measured left that I had been using to dirty my barrel. I knew fairly close what the velocity would be and had figured all the calculations on an app with my cell phone.

At the rifle range it took 2 hours to shoot 10 shots and that's all of the 2F I had measured out. Of course that takes into consideration all of the visiting. Didn't bring any extra powder. We live in a small town and have a range that will go out to well over 1000 yards. It was an Eagle project from one of the scouts in the area. In 10 minutes we can be shooting. I think the next time I'm to the range I'll be shooting at 500 yards and it is definately a lot of fun to hit something at those distances.

 

[fleener]

If you took 2 hours to shot 10 shots, you can be tickled with your groups. Did you have to mow the grass between shots?

I still think you should send your rifle to me for a couple of years and let me feed it for a while. I promise I would take good care of it.

Fleener

 

[jimirwin]

I am shooting a gun that has a 1 in 24" twist barrel at 200 yards. 90 grains of Swiss BP and for months I was shooting a group 4 to 5 inches and many times less. This is with a benchrest.

All of a sudden I am now shooting a 12" group. The first shot is way left and this gun has never done that. I cannot see a problem with the barrel or crown. I am trying to be as consistent as possible. The peep sights are secure. Any suggestions? Remember the first shoot is shooting way left of the rest of the shots.

Impossible to answer w/o more info. Is this with round ball or what projectile? Caliber?

Cannonball

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, We should start a visiting club where, like this forum, you can only talk about vintage firearms. If you show up with a ML and attached is a 3 foot scope, every old firearm from every old shooter, will be discussed. The range has five stations at some times they are all full. That's why we go in the middle of the week. I should send the gun to you and have you go to the expense of working up a load.

Hey jimirwin, If you go back and read the other replies, it will answer most of your questions. ie Bullet size, caliber, etc. I am not to MOA, but I am shooting a better group than a 12" group with that barrel. I think what made the difference is knurling of the bullet with a file. If you have an older bullet it is dull lead, but my new bullets are shiny and may have been slipping in the paper sleeve. That is just my guess anyway. I have now moved on to my other barrel.

 

[jimirwin]

I am shooting a gun that has a 1 in 24" twist barrel at 200 yards. 90 grains of Swiss BP and for months I was shooting a group 4 to 5 inches and many times less. This is with a benchrest.

All of a sudden I am now shooting a 12" group. The first shot is way left and this gun has never done that. I cannot see a problem with the barrel or crown. I am trying to be as consistent as possible. The peep sights are secure. Any suggestions? Remember the first shoot is shooting way left of the rest of the shots.

Hey Cannonball1....I'm Cannonball

I'm new to this forum, and having challenges getting used too it's workings.
I see you refer to PP. Thn plastic patches. So what do you mean by PP? Traditionally this refers to paper patches applied, usually by wrapping around elongated bullets and having NOTHING to do with round balls at all. I have shot and won at 200 yds and suggest that 4-5 inch groups with either is not really good. 12in says something is way wrong. If you're using plastic "patches"/wads. then you're on your own. However, there is no solvent to dissolve them. Only to loosen their grip on the bore (maybe) to enable mechanically removing their melted/stuck-on fouling. Having the first shot way out of the group suggests your "patch" is melting and fouling your bore from the first shot, thereby affecting subsequent shots. I highly & emphatically recommend stopping the plastic wads/patches. If there's some reason you must stick with them, then get used to cleaning between shots. Also look for a suitable lube to apply to the clean bore between shots. Vegetable oil perhaps. And lightly.