Pedersoli Brown Bess ?’s

[springfield art]

Recall the period comments about our Civil War soldiers loading over and over again, like the muskets found at Gettysburg with multiple charges in them! I can see where an un-conscious "second turn" would cause the lever to drop, never to be found! Great info, thanks.

 

[springfield art]

There were a few small outfits making them, they were the 1756 patterns. Coach and Harness, and I believe a company in NY was making them. They were ok the coach and harness ones were hit or miss.

The name Coach & Harness stirs a memory chip in my dust-covered brain! I think you've got it! Thinking back to the many events I did as an American and Brit foot soldier during the Bi-Cen, I'm glad I didn't get a 15 lb. musket! Is my memory correct that they actually weighed that much? The C&H ones, I mean. Thanks, once again this site un-earthed some great info for me.

 

[FlinterNick]

The name Coach & Harness stirs a memory chip in my dust-covered brain! I think you've got it! Thinking back to the many events I did as an American and Brit foot soldier during the Bi-Cen, I'm glad I didn't get a 15 lb. musket! Is my memory correct that they actually weighed that much? The C&H ones, I mean. Thanks, once again this site un-earthed some great info for me.

I dont’ think they weighed 15 lbs. possibly close to 13 with the bayonet. The heaviest reproduction long land bess I’ve handled was a 1742 model brown Bess with a steel rammer, it was just over 12 lbs. The 1755 from the rifle shoppe is slightly lighter because of smaller hardware and a slimmer stock.

But nothing around 15 lbs.

It’s possible some of the rifle shopp’s earlier dog lock guns were heavier, the Queen Ann musket sported a massive lock almost 8” long with a 46” barrel but the hardware was very simple.

 

[Flint1]

Hi,
It was not powder fouling that doomed the Fergusons. It was the weakness in the stock behind the lock. All Fergusons that show hard use such as the 2 ordnance rifles still surviving and several made for the East India Company, are broken across the stock just in front of the screw plug. I've built 3 Fergusons and frequently shoot the one I own. Patrick Ferguson hints at a lube for the screw plug in some of his correspondence. I use a mix of beeswax and Crisco and am able to fire 30-40 rounds without cleaning the screw plug. A real weakness almost never mentioned is that the chamber opens for loading with one full turn of the trigger guard handle. A second full turn and the plug drops out of the gun and it is easy when loading the rifle to allow the handle to swing a second turn. That could be fatal in battle and to return the plug, you have to orient it correctly so closes with the handle pointed back. It is NOT a soldier friendly gun to shoot. Although there is a lot of hyperbole claimed for speed of loading the gun, Ferguson wrote that the real advantage was his riflemen could easily load lying down behind cover.

dave

That is good information and I remember reading before about the weakness in the stock you mentioned. I believe I read somewhere that the night before the battle of Brandywine Ferguson was running through the British camps looking for something to lube the mechanism on his rifles. I've also heard that when Ferguson put on his demonstration in front of George III what sold the king on the design was Ferguson reloading while he was walking; in his mind the king equated that with his soldiers reloading while they advanced toward the enemy. I had also heard before that with a second turn you could completely remove the plug. Thanks for reminding me of all these. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I read some years ago that Ferguson did not actually invent this design. There was a similar design that required a number of turns to lower the plug and Ferguson improved that existing design by changing it to a one turn operation and adding a groove in the threads to help with fouling build up.

 

[dave_person]

You certainly know about these: I guess being NOT soldier-friendly is the real killer! Thanks for the good info.

Hi SA,
Thank you and I do know a bit from study and quite a bit of research work, and building and shooting these historical guns. The fate of Ferguson's experimental rifle corps is a fascinating story. After Ferguson was wounded at Brandywine, why did General Howe disband the corps, which was pretty effective but no more so than other light units, and send the men back to their original regiments? I think the secret is Howe's distaste for the Tory government in London and their meddling in his conduct of the war. Both he and his brother, Admiral Richard Howe, were Whigs in opposition to the conservative Tory government. The Howes accepted commands in America because they were personal friends of the King and they felt duty bound when he asked them for their service. However, neither Howe could stand the colonial secretary, George Germain, or the Prime Minister, Lord North. They went to America determined to fight the war as they saw fit employing every tool and opportunity to reconcile with the rebels. Both Howes rebelled against control or war plans from Germain's office.

Enter Capt. Patrick Ferguson. Recovering in Britain from sickness contracted during service in the West Indies, he perfects his breech loading rifle and offers it to British Ordnance. Ferguson was an energetic officer with ambition and knowledge of how to promote his ideas. He went right to the King and his top military officials. He was a good marksman and demonstrated the rifle on 2 occasions both to the King as well as senior Ordnance officials. They bought his ideas and ordered the creation of this experimental rifle corps as well as the production of his rifle for service in America. None of this was communicated to General Howe in New York City. Howe never knew of Ferguson's rifle or corps until just before Ferguson landed in New York. Ferguson presented himself to the commander and basically said, "Here we are now what do you want us to do?" Ferguson got off on the wrong foot with General William Howe right from the beginning because his rifle corps was a product of the King and Germain without any consultation with Howe. Moreover, Howe and his favorite General, Charles Cornwallis, thought Ferguson was a good officer but too impulsive. Howe never favored the rifle project and when Ferguson was wounded at Brandywine, he took the opportunity to disband it. Some riflemen clearly kept the rifles but most probably were sent to stores in New York. Many were unserviceable due to breakage in the stocks. Cornwallis never trusted Ferguson because he thought him impulsive and likely to get into trouble. He did at King's Mountain and he died there.

dave

 

[Grenadier1758]

In the last 2 issues of "Muzzleblasts" are articles going into details of the development and capabilities of the Ferguson rifle. Much more detail than we can put into a few paragraphs here on the Forum. Thanks to @dave_person for providing his hands on experiences and photos.