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Pedersoli Brown Bess very unreliable

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commando223

32 Cal.
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I just wanna say I'm new to flintlocks, I have two Enfield cap locks that I love that have never failed to fire so this is a little frustrating. I'm sure I have to be doing something wrong because there is no way a flint lock can be this unreliable. I went with a pedersoli to avoid the indian made guns since these are proofed and supposed to be better quality. I just hope I can get it running. My girlfriend was even starting to like it until it didn't fire all the time. I bought a lot of supplies from track of the wolf ball, patches, black English flints ect. I'm using 2f Goex in the barrel and 3f Goex in the pan since that's what I have on hand. This gun don't seem to spark that much It came with a small piece of lead that wraps around the flint but one thing I noticed was it always ends up coming loose. How tight should I tighten this thing down? I'm afraid of breaking something if I go too hard. Would I be better off using leather? should the flint go all the way back into the jaws and rest against the screw? I can provide pics if you guys need to see something that can help. (no not the girlfriend! lol)
 
The choice between leather or lead to hold the flint is a personal thing and both are used. You need to be sure the flint is long enough and wide enough to work efficiently. Ideally, the flint should touch the frizzen face about 1/3 the way down from the top and the front of the flint pointing into the pan at rest. This is sometimes difficult to obtain due to lock geometry. Sometimes the frizzen spring is too strong and allows the frizzen to fly back, striking the face of the flint. There are several possibilities including the frizzen being too soft from improper heat treating. Basically, pictures may enable someone here to help you with this problem. Good luck.
 
IMO, leather would be a good start for the flint wrap.

The flint should be about as wide (or wider) than the frizzen face. If the flint is wider, position it so that the side closest to the barrel doesn't hit it. Overhanging to the outside of the frizzen won't hurt anything.

The flint should be positioned as far out as possible without hitting the frizzen at half cock and without crashing into the pan when the cock is all the way down.
This will vary with different locks but that position should be the goal.
A short flint often can't be positioned this far out without putting something between the rear of the flint and the jaw screw.

The jaw screw should be tightened so that the flint won't move. Occasionally, I've seen cases where the jaw screws lower end was bottoming out on the metal below it so, rather than tightening the jaws grip on the flint wrap, it was just ramming itself into the bottom area.
If this is happening you either need a thicker flint, a thicker wrap or to remove the jaw screw and file some material off of the bottom.

I don't know about the Bess but almost all flintlocks come from the factory with too small of a touch hole.
The hole should be at least 1/16" and on a gun the size of a Bess it can be 5/64" diameter (.078). If it is drilled out to that size, if the pan flashes the gun should fire 99 percent of the time.
 
one of the problems might be that the frizzen itself is not hardened well enough. we had this once on a Pedersoli AN IX - no sparks at all.

i have heared latley, that Pedersoli guns do have problems with the frizzen. some of them just won't spark.

if i were in your shoes, i would remove the lock and give it to a skillfull gunmaker. he should be able to check it. if the frizzen needs to be hardened, i am sure he knows how to do this.
 
who did you buy the gun from? a vendor or a individual?

if its a vendor i would try everything without altering the gun. if nothing works i would contact the vendor and talk warranty. if you alter the gun it might void what ever warranty the gun has.

-matt
 
Did you buy it new or is it used. The hardening on the face of a Ped BB can wear through. It takes a long time but it does happen. If new, it may have come from factory soft. They are hardenable.
 
Stream of conscience...

Flint must be tight enough so that it is finger tight -- doesn't move with thumb and pointer fingertip pressure. This is tested at inspection on reenacting lines.

I have flint usually touching screw, but, that may not always be best/possible depending on flint.

I use leather as I don't feel lead can hold flint well enough without tightening too hard -- I too don't want to overtighten jaws to crush lead to be form-fitting! This usually requires two layers of leather.

I cut a notch in the back of the leather(s) to seat the flint back, as I said, against the screw.

I have no problem putting flints in bevel down if the shape required it!

My method for tightening the jaw is to semi-tighten flint and then lower the cock gently against the frizzen, wiggle the flint a tad and let frizzen dicate as flush a fit with flint as possible, and THEN tighen down so flint will not move for all intent and purpose. This has always worked for me.

Try a different flint if one particular one really just doesn't work...
 
I had mine hardened. Goes off great now. Two weeks after i sent it out i had it home.

U never said......flash in the pan.....or no prime ignition. When it fails what is the issue? Im also a fan of a large touchhole. Just shy of self priming.
 
Ooo... And don't fill pan with primer (try a little 4F) completely covering vent hole!
 
If you are getting flash-in-the-pan missfires then scrape your breech face. There's likely a crud buildup down there.

If the pan isn't flashing then it's a problem with the lock. Best guess is a too soft frizzen as has been mentioned.

Pedersoli Bess vent holes are huge! Mine is too big to plug with a toothpick. Too big to use 3F as a main charge too, it squirts right out the touch hole.
 
The reason that reenactors who use the Pedersoli bess for battle reenactments use a lead wrap, is that the musket works better with such. The lead should be imprinted with marks from the top and bottom jaws, and the hole in the back of the wrap is to allow the back of the flint to touch the jaw screw. Scroll down on the page from Avalon Forge and you will find a good illustration of two types of lead. Leather has a tendency with the large musket locks to absorb too much of the impact.

Sometimes the geometry of the cock is off just a tiny bit, so you get less sparks, and destroy flints fast, as the edge of the flint "rebounds" so hits the frizzen at too square of an angle..., the frizzen moves just a bit so contact is lost, but it doesn't open, it then snaps backwards and hits the edge of the flint again, but the impact of the flint has been slowed by then, the frizzen opens, and you get a few sparks. If you see an obvious impact spot on the upper part of the frizzen, and then a second lesser impact line a bit further down..., the frizzen is rebounding. Often placing an extra sliver of lead just under the flint, at its base where it contacts the cock screw..., will push the angle the front edge of the flint downward, and correct this.

If the Pedersoli frizzen face is gouged with marks from the flint, but you are not getting enough sparks, then the frizzen is too soft. If it isn't gouged, then it may be too hard.

Pedersoli locks sometimes suffer from poor action. Often the spring is fine, but in some cases over tightening of the internal lock screws on the interior bridle (the part that covers the tumbler and the sear) will slow down the movement of the cock. Sometimes the inner surface of the lock plate, and the surface of the interior bridle are rough and slow up the movement of the tumbler and thus slow the movement of the cock. Also the frizzen spring screw, if it goes a fraction of an inch too deep into the lock plate, may protrude a teeny tiny amount on the inside of the lock, and rub or block the action of the mainspring. Finally, sometimes the frizzen screw has been overtightened, and causes the metal on either side of the frizzen pivot hole to pinch inward, slowing the frizzen action, and reducing sparks. All of the above, save for the frizzen hardening and retempering are easy fixes.

Don't be fooled by YouTube videos where they wrap a Pedersoli frizzen in leather, put in into a steel can that once held canned peaches, and dump this into a campfire, followed by a quench in a bucket of water. That doesn't add carbon, and at best is a crude retempering. :shocked2: If the problem is the frizzen hardness, have it worked on by somebody who knows how to do it by controlled heating at specific temperatures.

LD
 
Zonie said:
The hole should be at least 1/16" and on a gun the size of a Bess it can be 5/64" diameter (.078). If it is drilled out to that size, if the pan flashes the gun should fire 99 percent of the time.

I picked up my Pedersoli Bess for a song ($200) because the guy simply couldn't get it to fire consistently. Standing there in his living room, I got plenty of spark, so the buy was a no-brainer for me.

Got home and ran a 1/16" bit into the flash hole, and it's been a reliable shooter ever since.

If you're getting good spark and flash in the pan, but no ignition, the solution is pretty clear to me. I'd invest in a drill bit before messing with adjustments to the flint mount or hardening the frizzen.

BTW- Now mine shoots reliably with 3f, 2f and even 1f Goex in the pan. The former owner couldn't get it to fire consistently with 4f.
 
I think you should find a group of flintlock shooter near you and get with them. They will be happy to help you. Starting off cold turkey with a flintlock is very hard to do, and a Bess to boot.
Like others have said
#1 scrape the breach to remove any cleaning patches or fouling build ups.
#2 With the frizzen closed the edge of your flint should be close to the face of the frizzen. With the frizzen open and the hammer down the edge of the flint should be within 1/4 inch of the touch hole.
#3 with the Bess unloaded and a sharp properly installed flint in place. When you pull the trigger if you do not have a shower of sparks you have a soft frizzen.
#4 I refuse to offer an opinion on bevel up or bevel down of flint wraps. I use all of these methods depending on the flintlock I am using.

My Bess came from 20 years of re enacting. The ramrod was locked into the ramrod channel, the touch hole was so burned out I could have used the barrel as a snorkle! I had to put in a touch hole liner. I got my loading data from Jethro so I did not have to work up a load. I have won some matches with my Bess But again I suggest you search out for local shooters for hands on help.
The Brown Bess is just not a good beginner project. But you are in the right help for suggestions.
 
Thanks for all the replies, the issue I am having is no flash in the pan. When it dose flash it always goes off.
 
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i agree it is either the flint or fizzen i shooting my Pedersoli bess for a years now and have never had a hang fire or any trouble when i got it the previouse owner was having trouble with it same as you i put in new flint edge up or down both ways (i have found some flints spark better edge up or down)
one other thing have you had the lock off and oiled it or if it was a used gun make sure it is free of any crud and funtions strong and fast
this gun may not be true HC/PC arm but its fun shooter dont give up on it jsut yet
i use 2f and 3f in the pan and ofcourse one has to use real black powder in a flintlock pan
 
Don't be fooled by YouTube videos where they wrap a Pedersoli frizzen in leather, put in into a steel can that once held canned peaches, and dump this into a campfire, followed by a quench in a bucket of water. That doesn't add carbon, and at best is a crude retempering

Amen, Bro. :bow:
But, the campfire bit makes it look 'authentic'.
 
A new Bess Frizzen will cost you about $55.00 from Dixie Gun Works http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advan...a3a773c1f0f0c6&keywords=bess+frizzen&x=5&y=10

If you can't get a spark any other way, you may need a new frizzen. You could get someone to harden it but if you are just starting out you probably don't know anyone that is capable.

I had to get a new frizzen for my Bess after about 20 years of use. Some don't last that long.

Many Klatch
 
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