Percussion firing question

[Ray-Vigo]

In theory would it not be possible that if some black powder were on the nipple and struck by the hammer, the impact could ignite it and then in turn the flash travel into the powder drum and into the barrel?

I've read that black powder can be impact sensitive if struck sufficiently hard, but its strikes me that it would have to be a pretty hard blow. The odds of a BS story seem much greater to me than this possibility.

 

[fredrader]

The hammer falling without a spark wouldn't ignite the powder but if it created a spark it would be possible..It has a stainless steel nipple so that kinda rules out a spark..I would have to say that if he received it with powder and ball in it he had to place a cap on the nipple and "pop" the cap discharging the weapon..But stranger things have happened I guess :idunno:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I go to a lot of shows and seems like every show there is at least one gun show up at the gun check desk loaded..They unload it and turn the owner around and tell them they are never to come back to any of there shows..I was sitting about 30' from a guy he removed a glock .40 from the owners box he had in his hand and proceeded to give it a look..He then placed the muzzle against the palm of his left hand and pulled the trigger blowing his ring finger knuckle away..The bullet hit the floor went to pieces hitting 4 or 5 other people..He said just before going into shock "You have to pull the trigger before ya can take it apart"..He was correct but you are supposed to open the slide and see that there is nothing in the chamber first...

Anyway,when I shipped him the renegade I use 2 separate box's..One containing the Brl and one with the stock so there is no chance of the 2 getting together and damaging anything..I tape the 2 box's together and ship them as one pkg..
I don't know if it was loaded or not (For Sure) but I know there is not one of the 27 I have here is loaded now :thumbsup:

Actually first you point the gun in a safe direction (not into your own hand), pull the magazine, then operate the slide to let the extractor remove any round in the chamber. :wink: Then take the Glock apart the way they tell you!

That gun show you go to sounds like a war zone :shocked2: :shake: .

Dave

 

[fredrader]

Oh,It wasn't the check in guy that discharged the glock,That guy was inside walking around..
I just had to clear that up.Sorry I wasn't clear on that point..


Any gun show you go to has the same check in procedure,You are supposed to have the mag removed from your weapon (Which it was)before you walk in the the show check station..They don't want you opening the slide or doing anything with the weapon while you are at the check in station (Just in case)..They want to be the one to check the weapon in case you have one in the chamber they can deal with it..I go to shows all over and if you ask em at the end of the day they will tell ya they always have one or more at every show come in loaded..We can't figure out how the guy with the glock made it in with one in the chamber but he sure did..
If I am going to show you my weapon I open it up and make sure it is empty before handing it to you and I fully expect you to open it up to insure it is empty before you look it over..It would be nice if everyone did that but a lot of people don't do it (Just ask the guy without the knuckle)

 

[paulvallandigham]

Those "checkers" should DEMAND that people open their guns up, and LOCK the Slide OPEN before handing it to them for inspection. I always open revolvers - swing out the cylinder on DA guns, and open the loading gate, to present the gun so that the checker can rotate the cylinder to see it unloaded when its a SA revolver. On my three-screw Rugers, I put the hammer back on the second notch, so that the cylinder bolt is lowered to allow the cylinder to spin, freely.

Guns are always passed to checkers or others with the muzzle pointing UP. Haven't seen too many people flying around in my life time, so I figure that is the safest place to point a gun that is being transferred to another person to handle.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Locking the slide open is a good thing. Putting a wire tie through the barrel and out the ejection port is a little more thorough. Keeps the idiot from dropping in a round and closing the slide to put it into battery. Anyone walking around with a hand gun without the wire tie in it gets thrown-out of the Show without a refund!

Or am I missing something??

Dave

 

[fredrader]

Most of the shows now use the plastic wire ties now which is a good thing for sure..Back in the day though they didn't use anything,They just checked em and handed it back to ya..I don't know if you have ever set up at a show but they don't check dealers weapons to see if they are loaded..They do make them put ties on there weapons though but they have to do it themselves..
I agree though that you should have the slide back and the mag out when you walk up to the check station and they like it to be back too but they do not want you doing it at the check point if it is not already back..I guess it is a good idea since they don't want to get shot by accident either..

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Anytime an action is handled there is a slim chance that a sear could let go and then you could have an AD. That's why the check station wants the owner to lock the slide back. The owner is responsible.

I'm busy shooting all of the different things (discipline's games: USPSA, IDPA, Shotgun, Bowling Pins, and 2 club's Black Powder matches) on the weekends when I'm not working or taking a drive with the Wife. Muzzleloading isn't the only thing I'm good at, so I really don't make the time to attend weekend Gun Shows. Now if they could run one around here on a Wednesday or Thursday, I'd seriously consider it........

Dave

 

[Zonie]

In theory would it not be possible that if some black powder were on the nipple and struck by the hammer, the impact could ignite it and then in turn the flash travel into the powder drum and into the barrel?

I've read that black powder can be impact sensitive if struck sufficiently hard, but its strikes me that it would have to be a pretty hard blow. The odds of a BS story seem much greater to me than this possibility.

My answer is No.

I just finished pouring a small pile of GOEX 3Fg powder out of a brand new can onto my vise.
I then proceeded to pound it with a 2 pound steel hammer until it was nothing but dust. I used very stout blows with my hammer.

I repeated this experiment three times and the results were that with the exception of turning the powder into dust, NOTHING HAPPENED.

Black powder cannot be ignited by direct impact.
It needs something very hot to light it.

That's why I mentioned that the presence of a piece of sand or fulminate would be needed.

As most folks know, a grinder produces sparks when it contacts steel. The grinding wheel is similar sand and if it were made out of bonded sand it would produce sparks if steel were placed against it.
From this one can imagine a piece of sand being hit by the hammer and producing sparks that could ignite the powder.

As I recall, the " caps" used in kids cap pistols used glass (which is a special type of sand) or other similar things inside their caps to cause them to fire.

 

[ebiggs1]

Who dry fires a cap lock anyway?

 

[Zonie]

Way too many people.

I'd venture to guess that there isn't one caplock out there owned by the average guy that hasn't been dry fired at least once.

That's why so many folks who have bought used guns often find that the percussion caps don't fit right on the nipples of their gun.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

When we're talking "dry fire", you mean letting the hammer fall full force onto an empty nipple? Or do you mean letting it fall and snap a cap on the nipple (with no charge in the barrel)?

I've got a book that says it's ok to "dry fire" the hammer so long as you have a pad of plastic or a piece of leather over the nipple to soften the impact and prevent metal-on-metal strike. It also says firing caps without a charge are part of cleaning and lock testing procedures. But I did read not to just pull the trigger and let the hammer fall on a totally empty nipple and strike metal-to-metal.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Dry-firing is metal to metal, full force, without a cap or a washer of any kind on the nipple to soften the blow of the hammer striking the nipple. This should be avoided as it will cause harm to the parts and will require you to repair or replace the nipple sooner than you would otherwise have to. This is where the term "Mushroomed Nipple" originates.

So from what you wrote, I'd say that you have the correct interpretation all of the way around!

Dave

 

[Swampman]

I've seen it happen. I believe it was from percussion cap residue left over from firing the gun.