Percussion Ignition Problem

[john s mosby]

I took my new (new to me) 40 cal Bedford Style Percussion Rifle to the range for the first time today. It has a Douglas 43 inch barrel. It's my other Don Coble rifle. It shoots great, grouping nice at 50 yards off the bench. However, several times (4 or 5) the cap went off but the main charge didn't go, that's out of about 25 or so shots. Each time I tried running a nipple pick in but ended up taking the nipple out and putting a little bit of powder under it. It went off fine after putting the bit of powder under the nipple.
I was using a .395 ball, 40 grains of powder, .010 patch and CCI no.11 caps.
The hole in the nipple looks really small, it's a good bit smaller than the hole in my Enfield Musket nipple. Are they all that small? The nipple pick for my musket won't go through it. I used to shoot that musket through an entire NSSA event and never had it not go off.
Seems like it should do better than not firing that many shots. My flintlock does better than that.
Any ideas?

 

[canyonman]

You can try the no.11 Magnum caps, same size but a bit more umph to 'em. You can also try different custom nipples from Uncle Mikes and T/C, they have names like Sure Fire, Spit Fire ect.
You may also discover that real black like Goex ignites easier than any of the subs.

Larry

 

[brushbuster]

i would try replaceing the nipple with a hot shot or equivelent .is that rifle a patent breach,or drum type .there may be some crud in the drum /breech acre blocking fire .blow the barrel out from the nipple end or use gun scrubber or break cleaner . do this also from the breech end with the barrel pointed down then blow out with compressed air then coat the inside of the barrel with light coats of gun oil or kroil etc.
hope this helps
bb

 

[bezoar]

Were you doing anything between shots like swabbing the barrel out? And just what propellent were you using?
And the caps that didnt ignite the propellant, did the caps themselves detonate or were they just bad caps? I find an unprimed cap now and then. And if you have a boring afternoon coming up you could just get take out the old dremel moto tool and some micro drill bits and just enlarge the channel. Was the nipple channel dirty or plugged when you pulled it off the drum?

 

[john s mosby]

See if I can answer all these questions. I was using Goex Black Powder, CCI no 11 Magnum caps. The caps always went off. The hole in the nipple is really small, it was not blocked shut but the pin I was using would barely go through it. I was swabbing between shots, using a damp patch followed by a dry one. The breech is the drum type. The wife gave me one of those pins she uses when she makes dresses, the kind with the small head on it, even then only the sharp point would go through the nipple.
Compaired to my musket nipple I wonder if that really small hole is big enough. I pulled the clean out screw out to look and the channel in to the barrel was open the several times I checked it, so it's open from the nipple down.
I don't know the brand of the nipple, I got it at Dixon's.

 

[bezoar]

Thats a bad nipple then, all the nipples at my house have no problem having a bent pipe cleaner shoved in the ends, and that doubled up pipe cleaner always seems a bit loose for mine.

I was thinking that your nipple channel was getting plugged up over several shots as residue built up.

 

[john s mosby]

A pipe cleaner? really? there is no way a pipe cleaner would go through that little hole. Just the sharp point of a dress makers pin fits in that hole. I use pipe cleaners for the touch hole in my flintlock, I just tried, it won't even start in the hole.

Thanks guys for all your help!!

 

[jaybeach]

Hmmmm - correct me if I'm wrong Bezoar - but I think you were referring to the top part of the nipple where the cap fits on, not the hole at the bottom. That is usually only a very small hole - even on the "hot shot" nipples. But the bottom hole IS about twice as large on the hot nipples - and that would be my suggestion, too. If the channel is clear going sideways into the barrel, the problem is probably with the nipple.

 

[john s mosby]

I think that's the problem too. I'll have to get one of those hot shot nipples or drill this one out.
Thanks

 

[cayugad]

I would not bother drilling it out.. get a new hot shot nipple.

Also whether this might be a help or not, but I have two rifes that are sidelocks. If I swab the barrel with anything (and I mean anything - no mixtures or store bought cleaners) other then pure 91% isopropyl or denatured alcohol the rifle will not fire. It might take as many as three caps, or it will hang fire. The last alternative is as you described, pull the nipple drop a little powder down there and then it will boom!

good luck with your new rifle. Sounds like a beauty!!

 

[roundball]

I think that's the problem too. I'll have to get one of those hot shot nipples or drill this one out.
Thanks

PS: Remember, there's other design considerations of the Hot Shop nipple than just making the exit hole larger which make them more effective...they are longer with a longer combustion chamber inside, and they have a lateral vent hole drilled just below the top of the nipple...I've used TC factory nipples, Knight nipples, Spitfire nipples and Hot Shot nipples...for me, nothing else has come close to the performance of a Hot Shot nipple

 

[hcook]

You might try bumping the butt of the gun after pouring in the powder, but before loading the ball. This will shake some powder into the drum and under the nipple. Worth a try. Good luck with the new gun.

Hank in WV

 

[soggy]

...for me, nothing else has come close to the performance of a Hot Shot nipple

Roundball: I couldn't agree more........ :RO:

John: Something else you might want to consider. I was having problems with ignigtion and a fellow was watching me when I swabed between shots. He noticed that I was taking the cleaning patch down past the channel where the drum fits, thus causing some of the "crud" to be pushed out into the entrance of the drum. I now stop the cleaning jag just short of the drum . :m2c: Results have improved greatly.
SOGGY :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

He noticed that I was taking the cleaning patch down past the channel where the drum fits, thus causing some of the "crud" to be pushed out into the entrance of the drum. I now stop the cleaning jag just short of the drum

:: ::

(that's one of the reason's I love a patent breech muzzleloader)
:: ::

 

[john s mosby]

I ordered a hot shot nipple from Dixie, I needed a few other things anyway. I'll be sure to bump the side of the rifle before the ball goes in to get a bit of powder into the drum area too. And I'll be sure not to run the cleaning patch down all the way.
I think I have a picture of this gun, I'll post it if I find it.

Thanks to all you guys.

 

[Zonie]

I just tried the dressmakers straight pin test on all of the nipples in my shooting box and find that the pin (.028 diameter) goes thru all of the nipples I have.
It is a close fit in some nipples and a slightly loose fit in others. I would guess that the actual hole sizes thru the nipples are from .029 to .032.
The holes thru my Musket nipples are just about the same size.

IMO, the idea of drilling out your nipple is just asking for trouble. The smallest drill bit most of us have access to is .062 (1/16) diameter and this is much too large for the thru hole in a precussion cap.

Send away for, or buy locally (if available) a new nipple. The Hot Shot nipples have always worked very well for me.

As others mentioned, if your leaving liquids in the drum because your using too wet of a patch to wipe with, the new nipple will not cure the problem.
IMO, the wiping patch should be damp, not wet.

Also, make sure the hammer is on half cock and the nipple is not capped when your ramming the ball.

 

[john s mosby]

Hay guys
After all your help the least I could do is show you the rifle.
Both of these guns were built about 1950 for Don Coble, he was a well known NMLRA shooter from 1940 up to about 1960.
I got them at his estate sale last year.

 

[john s mosby]

Zonie

The pin I was using is .020 and it was a snug fit. For wiping the bore between shots I get the patch just damp in my mouth, and follow that with a dry patch.

 

[Old40Rod]

All the times I have said this you think I worked for a C02 bottler... try a blast or two with a C02 ball discharger between shots, see if that helps. Do you clean out the barrel and nipple with alcohol or someting similar prior to shooting to make sure any oils are gone? You say your are using spit lube... did you remember to spit out yer chaw first?

:crackup:

 

[john s mosby]

Darn, forgot to spit my chaw out today.
From what everyone has said the hot shot nipple should fix things.