Percussion rifle for round balls

[LME]

1 in 48 is a fine twist for round ball. Slower twist will generally find its best accuracy with heavier charges. I used to think I needed a slow twist rifle but a decent 1 in 48 is accurate enough for deer to 100 yards or beyond.

I found accuracy is good with a ball in a 1 in 48 twist and the slower twist as well. The only reason I prefer a twist with slower twist riflings is in my testing it will take a heavier charge and maintain accuracy while the 1 in 48 would have to use a lot lower charge to obtain good accuracy. I also think either would take down most game.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I’ve shot 80 grains in a TC 50 for years with good accuracy. I’m not sure it will shot a 3” group at 100 yards anymore because I can’t shoot that well anymore. (Eyes) It will definitely give deer accuracy at that range although I probably wouldn’t attempt the shot anymore unless the situation was perfect.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’d take the Frontier, of your three favorites that’d be my pick.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Can the Pedersoli really have fixed sights as the description indicates? Why would anyone make a rifle with open sights these days but make the rear sight fixed? That's just crazy.

Because the open sights, once an accurate load is developed, is excellent for aiming at targets from 25 to 100 yards. No further adjustment is needed is the sights are fixed for shooting at 75 yards. Well, the ball is beginning to drop at 100 yards and will above the point of aim at 50 yards by about an inch. On point of aim at 75 yards and about 1-2 inches low at 100 yards. Not only that the fixed sight is fixed in place and not moving out of adjustment with the adjustable sights. Many hunters have removed the adjustable Lyman rear sight on their GPR for improved accuracy from the fixed sight. Nope, not crazy at all.

 

[PaulF70]

I had GPR’s, in flint and percussion. They are heavy! If you hunt from a stand or hut fine, but carrying thru the woods it’ll get heavy. (Of course, I’m in my 70’s) Bought a Hatfield, it’s a tack driver at 100 yds and weighs less. Pedersoli makes the same rifle, it’s “Frontier”. It’s issue is the patent breech. Find and visit a local BP shoot. Go to the target shack and review the 100 yd scores. Search out the high scorers, they’ll share information.

The Frontier is 7.7 lb according to Midway which is in my wheelhouse. I find anything over ~8lb to be a bear to carry in the woods all day.

Nice thing is with these guns we don't have to add on 2 lb for fancy glass.

 

[PaulF70]

I like the special offer on the Frontier rifle , 1 cent off .

With that cent you're a fifth of the way to another round ball!

 

[UndeadPoet]

Which of these two?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022662130?pid=901643#reviews
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022017846?pid=691450
I am partial to Pedersoli as I love my Pedersoli SBS shotgun.

The Traditions has desirable slower twist and is also cheaper.

Can the Pedersoli really have fixed sights as the description indicates? Why would anyone make a rifle with open sights these days but make the rear sight fixed? That's just crazy.

Also considering this:

https://taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/blackpowder-rifles/kentucky-percussion-rifle-50-35-9-16.html
I think Taylor's is just a retailer and doesn't make these guns, right? Who does?

(I have purchased Italian black powder revolvers that came in Taylor's boxes.)

The Pedersoli Frontier in .50 is 1:48” The Traditions Pennsylvania in .50 appears to be 1:66” The Kentucky (which is a Pedersoli, by the way) in .50 is also probably 1:48”

I can’t speak to the Traditions, but I am sure it is fine. I own a Frontier (Blue Ridge), but it is in .54 and has the slower 1:60ish” twist. I like it. I also own a Pedersoli Pennsylvania Dixie (a longer version of the Kentucky) in .45 and it is a 1:48” I like it too.

If you can get your hands on one of these rifles to get at least a feel for it, you would be better off. It is hard to decide on stuff based on just a pic or features.

 

[UndeadPoet]

I had Hoyt deepen grooves in my TC .45 and that made a great improvement. My TC .50 shoots PA Conicals really great and suffers with roundballs, both these rifles are 1/48 twist. My TC PA Hunter rifles shoot RB and PA Conicals great and they have 1/60 twists. I believe that the 1/48 will do better with work but the slow twist is just so simple and easy. I still am learning about these complicated simple made firearms if I don't run out of money first.

COTNTOP, can you please share cost for Bobby Hoyt to deepen the grooves in you T/C .45? Did the caliber stay the same? Did he have to sleeve it, or was he able to freshen the existing rifling? Thanks! I have a .50 Renegade that I think I might like to try that with.
‘Poet

 

[PaulF70]

Because the open sights, once an accurate load is developed, is excellent for aiming at targets from 25 to 100 yards. No further adjustment is needed is the sights are fixed for shooting at 75 yards. Well, the ball is beginning to drop at 100 yards and will above the point of aim at 50 yards by about an inch. On point of aim at 75 yards and about 1-2 inches low at 100 yards. Not only that the fixed sight is fixed in place and not moving out of adjustment with the adjustable sights. Many hunters have removed the adjustable Lyman rear sight on their GPR for improved accuracy from the fixed sight. Nope, not crazy at all.

I have no argument about not adjusting for distance (elevation) - I never do that! I shoot within a reasonably flat trajectory window and use mild hold under/over.

What I don't get is what if you need windage adjustment because the sights are not perfectly aligned, etc? What if your gun shoots 15" low with the load you like? How do you fix that?

I must be missing something big. I have never shot with *fixed* sights. Even my earliest rifles 40 years ago - Crosman pellet guns - had adjustable sights.

Please enlighten me, seriously..

 

[COTNTOP]

Mr. Hoyt recut rifling in my 45 cal with grooves at .011 deep and the bore came to .456, the charge was around $80 back in mid 2020. I tried .451 balls and wound with .454 if memory serves me right. If anyone has a better suggestion on ball size I am game to try. Work got too heavy and the Great Covid Scare kinda got me off track.

 

[deermanok]

I have no argument about not adjusting for distance (elevation) - I never do that! I shoot within a reasonably flat trajectory window and use mild hold under/over.

What I don't get is what if you need windage adjustment because the sights are not perfectly aligned, etc? What if your gun shoots 15" low with the load you like? How do you fix that?

I must be missing something big. I have never shot with *fixed* sights. Even my earliest rifles 40 years ago - Crosman pellet guns - had adjustable sights.

Please enlighten me, seriously..

Fixed sights can be adjusted. A hammer, brass punch and or a file are the necessary tools.

 

[hanshi]

Grenadier1758 beat me to it and I agree with him. A 1-48" twist will shoot prb as accurately as about any other rot as long as the grooves are deep enough. My .32 & .36 are 1-48" and tack drivers. The .45 & .50 are about 1-56" while my .54 has a 1-66" bore. All of them, except the .54, have grooves from .010" up to .016". Those grooves grab the prb and spins them without striping on the rifling.

As for fixed sights they can be drifted for windage and filed for elevation. In the 18th and 19th century a 1-48 twist was common. That's because they cut sufficiently deep rifling to work.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Guess its me, My bread and butter is 100-150 yards. 25-100 is no challenge.
If you all think 1/48 in good, then go try a 1/60, and you will change you mind.

 

[LME]

I’ve shot 80 grains in a TC 50 for years with good accuracy. I’m not sure it will shot a 3” group at 100 yards anymore because I can’t shoot that well anymore. (Eyes) It will definitely give deer accuracy at that range although I probably wouldn’t attempt the shot anymore unless the situation was perfect.

I have sighted in a lot of rifles for friends and the 50 cal. T/C rifles with 1 in 48 twist rifling ,shooting a round ball all were at their best accuracy with 60 grains of powder. I haven't shot a conical in any of them and I haven't run into any different rifling other than the afore mentioned rifling. There may be something different in your rifle and there are several things that can make one rifle of the same cal. shoot different. I have only shot the standard rifles. I found 80 grains in these rifles didn't shoot as accurate as I like.

 

[PaulF70]

80 grains is pretty much a minimum whitetail load for me so I think I have to lean towards the slower twists.

But does anyone happen to know if the Pederosi (above) has those "deep grooves"?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have no argument about not adjusting for distance (elevation) - I never do that! I shoot within a reasonably flat trajectory window and use mild hold under/over.

What I don't get is what if you need windage adjustment because the sights are not perfectly aligned, etc? What if your gun shoots 15" low with the load you like? How do you fix that?

I must be missing something big. I have never shot with *fixed* sights. Even my earliest rifles 40 years ago - Crosman pellet guns - had adjustable sights.

Please enlighten me, seriously..

As @deermanok and @hanshi have stated, a small tap hammer and a brass punch will drift the sights in the dovetails. Just remember that you adjust the front sight for windage by moving it in the opposite direction. You move the rear sight in the direction you want the impact to move. Use a file on the front sight to raise the impact. Filing the rear sight will lower the impact. The fit of the sight in the dovetail will hold the sight in place.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Guess its me, My bread and butter is 100-150 yards. 25-100 is no challenge.
If you all think 1/48 in good, then go try a 1/60, and you will change you mind.

I have. I found no need to change my mind.

 

[PaulF70]

I cannot make up my mind between the Traditions and the Pedersoli. The former is available at a great price and has adjustable rear sight and slower twist. But I know the Pedersoli is higher quality. And I have some brand loyalty.

 

[burlesontom]

I have owned several Traditions and CVA rifles and everyone was a decent shooter. One I had was called a Springfield Hawken from Traditions. It was a $105 dollar kit from Bass Pro 25 years ago. It had 1/66 stamped on the barrel but pushing a ramrod down the barrel and measuring the twist I still came up with 1/48. No matter. It was a shooter from the word go. I killed my first BP deer kill with that rifle.

If your gun comes with fixed sights you will probably find it shoots low. Thats on purpose. Its done like that so you can find the load that shoots best for you and the file the front sight down to raise the POI. The front and rear sights can be drifted to correct any windage issues. Once set you are good from now on. If you want you can buy ladder adjustable sights from Track Of The Wolf and a few other places. The sights are easy to swap out. The European dovetails are usually .355 instead of the American standard .375. Its an easy job to make the dovetail wider if you need to.

My GPR has a 1/60 twist and is just the berries to shoot at 100 yards. And surprisingly it shoots Lee Improved Minnies good enough for 100 yard deer hunting. Its in 50 caliber. Its also a gun I have had for 25+ years that I bought new for $230 as a finished rifle. It would be my next to last to ever sell.

 

[smoothshooter]

The traditions percusons are accurate and work well, T.C.'s and Lymans are also good rifles. The Pedersolis are probably the best of the new rifles out there but cost more than the traditions. I personaly believe the Pedersolis are far better in Flint but for a cap gun the traditions work fine.

Get a used T/C .50.
Cheaper than a new anything else and is the best quality factory gun out there.
Lots of used ones available. Make sure the bore is not pitted like so many used muzzleloader barrels are.