Percussion Rifles Beginning?

[Eric M]

I read that the percussion cap was introduced circa 1830. When did the use of percussion rifles become common?

 

[jumbeaux]

Well I am darn sure not an expert at anything but I do remember reading a paper written by a Texas A&M researcher on firearms from the Texas War of Independence from Mexico in the 1830's. While the percussion cap was invented around 1830 it was not common until the period of 1840 to 1850. I also remember (I think) that the first military usage was around 1843. There are far more experts on this forum who will have a treasure of facts....hope this helps alittle bit...

rick

 

Actually, the first Patent for a percussion cap was in 1806 in England. By 1830 they had started becoming somewhat common, with conversions of flintlocks with drums, and the pill ignition system, a primitive form of cap. I'm not sure on the patent date for the integrated snail percussion, like on the Hawken, but I think it was between 1830 or 40. demand was limited by supply in the early years, and the fact it was an English invention.

Bill

 

[jethro224]

Kinda depends on where you were. Sooner East, later West.

 

[hounddog]

Fellas, In my way of thinking, it wasnt so much the rifle, about any comptent gunsmith could convert one no matter where they lived. Availability of caps was the key factor If you were not able to get caps when needed the gun was useless. As with Jethro the east used it more first then the west. The more settled areas of the country were more likely to have a reliable source of caps locally, When it did catch on it went over big, Only going to cartridge firearms similar to what we use today trumped the percussion system. Anyway thats the way I see it. hounddog

 

[mmahlock]

This link includes 10 boxes of percussion caps. Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836

I also have references to percussion caps and their usefulness in a book published by noted gun maker in England in 1821.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I don't have the quote handy but I remember a fur trader's journal stating that their powder was of such low quality that they had to convert their rifles to "detonators". So the conversion was possible in the field!I don't know the year but I believe it was in the 1830's.

 

[Zonie]

The Reverend Alexander John Forsyth in Aberdeenshire, Scotland patented the "scent bottle" percussion system in 1807.

This system used the priming powder contained in a small attached bottle. The bottle deposited a small amount in a "v" surface adjacent to the vent hole and a blow by the hammer caused it to explode and light the main powder charge.

Shortly after this a number of various methods of containing the fulminate were made including tubes and hat shaped caps.
W.W. Greener in the book "THE GUN AND ITS DEVELOPMENT" mentions that in 1814 a Mr. Joshua Shaw in Philadelphia put the fulminate in a steel cap which was reusable. He soon tried pewter and in 1816 used copper very much like the final percussion caps.

By the mid 1820's the use of percussion caps was beginning to replace the flintlock system and they were quite widely used by all but the military.

By the 1830's their use was widespread and conversion of older flintlocks was common.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The 1816 date is generally used to define the beginning of the percussion cap ignition system. It was far more popular in Europe, than here for a number of years. It became more popular East of the Mississippi River, because of problems providing supplies in the WEST for the first 15 years or more.

Colt brought out his first percussion ignition revolver in October, 1836, and there were a variety of Pepperbox Pistols manufactured in the East After that date. Supply problems were not overcome until the 1840s. In 1846, the first breechloading Cartridge was invented in Europe- using a percussion cap loaded with 1 grain of black powder, and a round ball pressed into the top. The cap had been formed into a "rimfire", and can be still purchased today as the .22 BB cap. During this same period, Pinfire ignition cartridges were invented and tried in various calibers, in France.

In America, in 1857, Smith & Wesson came out with a .22 Rimfire cartridge revolver, which is considered the first successful Rimfire revolver sold here. .32 and .38 caliber Rimfires came out within a few years, particularly because of the demand for a more powerful revolver cartridge to use for self defense during the Am. Civil War(1861-1865) A. .44 Rimfire cartridge was invented by Oliver Winchester and used in a repeating rifle towards the end of the war. And, larger Rimfire cartridges were designed and used in rifles, such as the Spencer during the war. It was After that War ended, that Center Fire cartridges were invented.

Its amazing how short a life the percussion system had, before it too was replaced, considering the centuries that the flintlock system had(has) been in use. :hmm: :v :hatsoff: There should be no doubt, however, considering the development of the .22 BB cap, as a "single shot pistol "gallery" round, that the Percussion cap system was the mother of breechloading cartridges and the guns to shoot them.

 

[Dphar]

Like all new inventions the percussion system went through teething problems. The first caps were iron and reloadable. Various other systems were tried, "scent bottle locks" etc. It was in 1820s before the cap we know was perfected and patented. Shaw had invented the copper cap in England in 1814 but did not make it public until he came to America but here he was unable to get a patent being an alien so the patent was not issued until the early 1820s.


In the US the flintlock held on until the 1840s. Even at this time many, especially in the west did not trust it though it was is wide use by 1830. The US Military continued to make flintlocks as standard issue arms till about 1842.

It was a great hit with shotgun shooters in England and America who shot flying birds.
As a result according to Nigel George the percussion system replaced the flintlock in shotguns virtually overnight in England.
Rifles lagged somewhat and it may have been due to accuracy problems with the early caps (due to variations in the caps) and breech designs. But this is supposition on my part.

Dan

 

[Squire1]

On display in the Alamo is an original rifle that was owned by David Crockett. It is a half stock percussion gun presented to him while serving in Congress and it's date of manufacture was somewhere between 1826-1830 if my information is correct. Certainly before his departure from Congress in 1835.

 

[charcoal]

Just a note: Between the rimfire and the centerfire was the centralfire.

 

[tg]

By the early 1830's caps were showing up fairly often on list of goods going up the Missouri River also still lots of flints, go to the "Mt Men and the Fur Trade" site and search on "caps" or "percussion caps"

 

[wtilenw]

This link includes 10 boxes of percussion caps. Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836

I also have references to percussion caps and their usefulness in a book published by noted gun maker in England in 1821.

From the link you posted I have copied the following reference to Powder on the supply list;

" 32 cannisters Powder F
15 " " .456F
12 half bbls. " .600F Dupont "

Does anyone have any information on this particular reference to Powder description and how it may compare to our Powder descriptions today?
Thanks.

 

[flintriflesmith]

I saved this link to a discussion of this subject that took place in 2007 on the Muzzleloader Magazine message board. Scroll down about half a page to the entry by "GreyWolf" for a good summary of his research.
Gary
Link



:cursing: The link works fine until I try to paste it here. Maybe you can get there by Google.

 

[Et2ss]

Just a note: Between the rimfire and the centerfire was the centralfire.

These are the same thing.

There was the 'needle fire' type of rifle where a cap was placed directly behind the bullet & in front of the powder in a paper cartridge, A needle like firing pin would pierce the paper and drive through the powder to hit the cap to fire. Then there was the pinfire which was a brass cartridge with a pin protruding from the side that was struck to ignite the cartridge.

 

[LaBonte]

I saved this link to a discussion of this subject that took place in 2007 on the Muzzleloader Magazine message board. Scroll down about half a page to the entry by "GreyWolf" for a good summary of his research.
Gary
Link



:cursing: The link works fine until I try to paste it here. Maybe you can get there by Google.

Here's the info Gary was trying to provide a link to (I be Greywolf over there)
The first workable percussion system is dated at 1805 and this system, the scent bottle with pellets, was patented in 1807 by Reverend Forsyth. Nobody knows for sure who invented the first cap, but workable models were around by 1815 and it was first patented in 1823. The early workable caps were made of steel as noted above and then copper foil and later of brass. The primer itself was, Fulminate of Mercury, which was used in some cartridge primers as late as the early 1960's (30-06 competiton ammo), although they weren't widely used after the first World War.

As for little or no cap locks in America and especially in the West - here's several period references that suggest other wise......
1) In 1827 the "American Shooter's Manual" noted that eastern sportsman were almost exclusively using shotguns fitted with percussion locks.

2) General Ashley 1829, "I have used the percussion locks locks but little, but believe them admirably well constructed for general use, but more particularly for the prairies, where the severe winds and rains prevail at certain season of the year."

3) In Sept 1831 and again in December 1833, the US government ordered for the Western Indian trade, some 2150 guns from Deringer. One shipment included," 217 percussion and 93 flintlock rifles complete, at $12.50 each: 217,000 percussion caps at 80 cents per thousand; [and] 310 woolen covers at 37 1/2 cts......"

4) In 1834 shortly after founding Fort Hall in Idaho - N. Wyeth and his party - "percussioned three rifles, our powder being so badly damaged as to render flintlocks useless."
Here's Nat Wyeth's journals/correspondence -[url] http://roxen.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/nwythint.html

5) August 1837, Osborne Russell's hunting companion, "shot a Grizzly Bear and bursted the percussion tube of his rifle which obliged us to return to our comrades...and make another tube." Journal of a Trapper - http://roxen.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/ruslintr.html

6) Famed Mountain Man, Jed Smith was killed by the Comanches along the Santa Fe Trail in 1831 - the pistols taken from him had been converted from flint to percussion and his rifle was reportedly a Hawken caplock.

7) H. H. Sibley after a hunting mishap, 1839, "........Now my opinion...is that, any man calling himself a sportsman who will not use a percussion, when he can procure one, in lieu of a flint-lock gun, should be furnished with a strait jacket at the public expense."

8) The US Armies Hall breechloaders were first fitted with percussion locks in 1831 (surprisingly early considering that the miltary of that period was notoriously slow about modernizing). Still most of the world's armies, including the US, had by and large had at least begun switching to caplock firearms by 1840-42 (the so-called M1841 Mississippi Rifle was the first such widely used USA long arm - it was in wide use by the mid-1840's.) .

9) It didn't take long for the percussion system to move west, early in 1832, John Martin of Little Rock, Ark. advertised, " Guns and Pistols with common locks, fitted with percussion locks, at the shortest notice." - In other words he was advertising that he could convert a "common lock", i.e. flintlock, to percussion at short notice, indicating that there was a plentiful supply of not only parts, but caps as well.

10) American Fur Company brigade leader Lucien Fontenelle bought his Hawken in 1832 and it was definitely a percussion since he also bought caps at the same time.

11) Mtn Man Kit Carson was an early (circa 1838-9) advocate of Colt's percussion revolvers and longarms, as were the Texas Rangers (1837-38) and Josiah Gregg (1839) and his brother who were outfitted with Colt revolving pistols and rifles.

12) Warren Ferris mentions using a cap lock during his tenure of 1830-35 in the mountains.

By the later 1830's and early 1840's the use of the cap lock was generally well on it's way to making the flintlock all but obsolete except amongst the Indians and some of the old die hard frontiersman. Still Western Indian trade guns at least were produced with flintlocks well into the late 1860's, but this may not so much have been due to the lack of caps, but rather their method of hunting buffalo on horseback, where the flintlock was easier to load and self-prime.

Availability of caps in the west: Hansen's book "The Hawken Rifle It's Place in History" has several references to caps being available in St Louis at least by 1830, just 3 short years from the time they were considered de riguer in the "East" (in 1827 the "American Shooter's Manual" noted that eastern sportsman were almost exclusively using shotguns with percussion locks and by 1830 rifles as well).
By 1834-35 several vendors in the St. Louis area were advertising quantities of caps in the 100,000's and within another couple of years later they had them in the millions. As to getting them out west, although it may seem on the face of things that such "luxuries" were hard to get many rendezvous trade lists don't necessarily uphold this view. Not only that, but by the late 1820's and early 30's several forts and trading posts, Uncompaghre (1826), Laramie (1834), Union and it's satellites 1829, Hall (1834), Bent's, (1834), etc. as well as the Santa Fe trade made things more easily available.

Regarding wet caps - it's one of those sort of "myths" that just won't die. Early on waterproofed caps were being made and sold. Heck even modern primers must be waterproofed.....As for the ability to "just pick up a rock" reason for using a flintlock rather than a caplock - not only is not as easy as it sounds - there are many areas in the west where suitable rocks aren't easily obtained and then it must be knapped properly to work, plus thousands of flints show up for sale on the RMFT era trade lists.
Besides following that logic - a bow and arrow or spear would be the better choice, since both powder and ball can be lost (or in the case of powder ruined) and neither were necessarily any more easily obtained than caps...

 

[wtilenw]

Pardon me if I have missed it. I am actually interested in the following line items from the list and how they compare to today's granulation or description;

" 32 cannisters Powder F
15 " " .456F
12 half bbls. " .600F Dupont "

Thanks everyone for your time and expertise :hatsoff:

 

[Swtodd]

Thank you, great information. Guess i need a straight jacket :grin: , except for the cap & ball revolvers.

steve

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Morning Squirrel,

I posted this information on another place on this forum.

The David Crockett rifle on display in the Alamo Chapel was originally a much longer barrel, maple stocked flintlock. Due to extensive abuse and neglect, it was converted to caplock in 1886 by the then current owner. In the early 1900's, the rifle was in the hands of John Crockett, and the 1886 owner wrote a letter to Mr. Crockett detailing how he had came to be in prossesion of the rifle, and why it was restocked and converted to caplock.

A transcribed copy of this letter is available from the DRT Research Library in San Antonio, Republic of Texas is available for a small fee,

The 1835 Philedelphia presentation rifle is a patent breech style caplock rifle in 50 caliber. It was originally made as a caplock; not converted from a flintlock.

With respect to All,

John L. Hinnant

"God and Texas"