Powder charge. How much powder do you use.

[TC Tommy]

I learned from a friend of mines uncle who used to build muzzleloaders back in the 70's. Sadly he is no longer with us.
But the one thing he couldn't emphasize more was, if you get a large flame out of your barrel, that's all waisted powder.
You want to get the powder to burn completely in the barrel where it is expanding and pushing on your projectile to the
muzzle. Once you found out how much powder that takes, you can then tweak the load.

 

[nkbj]

My old Dixie Guns Works 42" fifty caliber photon torpedo likes 90 grains of FFg.
Every piece has its preferences.

 

[Patched]

Of my 5 round ball guns all are 54 cal…the fast twist is 1:66 all others are 1:72 to 1:75 twists…the reason for these slow twist rates is the guns ability to maintain accuracy with large charges of powder….

The reason for large charges of powder is more to flatten the trajectory than to deliver more energy…it’s just the nature of the round ball projectile…

So I use 70grs of 2f and just the patch for target/casual shooting fun.
Hunting loads are 140grs of 2f, a felt wad then the tightly fitting patched ball…rare, but follow up shots take a .005 smaller ball.

With fixed sights 150yds is my point blank…for my western hunting that last 50yd “gain” of less bullet drop is substantial and the whole reason for the slo twists and the extra powder…(James Forsyth’s 1851 book and Sam Fadala’s writings argued for this exact set up in a black powder hunting gun.)

This works pretty well…there’s several sets of muley antlers to prove it.

 

[Jedidiah]

Of my 5 round ball guns all are 54 cal…the fast twist is 1:66 all others are 1:72 to 1:75 twists…the reason for these slow twist rates is the guns ability to maintain accuracy with large charges of powder….

The reason for large charges of powder is more to flatten the trajectory than to deliver more energy…it’s just the nature of the round ball projectile…

So I use 70grs of 2f and just the patch for target/casual shooting fun.
Hunting loads are 140grs of 2f, a felt wad then the tightly fitting patched ball…rare, but follow up shots take a .005 smaller ball.

With fixed sights 150yds is my point blank…for my western hunting that last 50yd “gain” of less bullet drop is substantial and the whole reason for the slo twists and the extra powder…(James Forsyth’s 1851 book and Sam Fadala’s writings argued for this exact set up in a black powder hunting gun.)

This works pretty well…there’s several sets of muley antlers to prove it.

WOW, 140 grains?? That seems excessive to me, but then I would never take a shot at any animal, at 150yds, with a ML. Neither the sights nor my eyes are that good. Even with an "unmentionable", 150 yds with irons is a lo-o-o-o-n-n-n-g way. IMHO

 

[smokepolehall]

Geez i don't know if i can see a tick toter at 150 yds let alone see one using open sights. Thats ok tho, spect i can still ease up to most of them less than 100 yds

 

[TFoley]

Tenngun wrote; Bess shot pretty low grade powder back in the day, as compared to civilian powder.

There's a lot written about Colonial Era Powder. You're correct about it's not up to the standards of modern black powder. I remember reading a historical account about a batch of powder the Colonials stole from the British. The powder was such poor quality, it wouldn't go off if you put a candle flame to it. Semper Fi.

I call that sabotage. Those sneaky Brits, letting you steal crappy powder

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Geez i don't know if i can see a tick toter at 150 yds let alone see one using open sights. Thats ok tho, spect i can still ease up to most of them less than 100 yds

Now that I know what a "tick totter" is I'll say I have never found a tick on any deer I have shot.

 

[smokepolehall]

I have been doing some pondering on this n that about powder charges n loads. I have to sell a modern ML this year as they are not my cup of coffee. Of my factory models i have 4. 2 of each rock sparker n perc. the .54 is biggest cal n the a 50. 2 of mine are .45's, been shooting ML's since 1957. The .45 cal is my favorite. I spect over the next year or 2 i will send those down the road. Think i may in the future build another .45, at least i can take time todecide yes or no

 

[smokepolehall]

Now that I know what a "tick totter" is I'll say I have never found a tick on any deer I have shot.

You are so lucky, they live on these deer in the South n mid-west. I live in Ky. now n the 2 i killed this year had plenty. When i lived over in Mo. the deer i killed were covered in them

 

[tenngun]

I was just thinking that. You can’t weigh a dead deer here until de ticked, as tge little fellers can double the deer weight

 

[Redturd Reloader]

Now that I know what a "tick totter" is I'll say I have never found a tick on any deer I have shot.

Of my 5 round ball guns all are 54 cal…the fast twist is 1:66 all others are 1:72 to 1:75 twists…the reason for these slow twist rates is the guns ability to maintain accuracy with large charges of powder….



The reason for large charges of powder is more to flatten the trajectory than to deliver more energy…it’s just the nature of the round ball projectile…



So I use 70grs of 2f and just the patch for target/casual shooting fun.

Hunting loads are 140grs of 2f, a felt wad then the tightly fitting patched ball…rare, but follow up shots take a .005 smaller ball.



With fixed sights 150yds is my point blank…for my western hunting that last 50yd “gain” of less bullet drop is substantial and the whole reason for the slo twists and the extra powder…(James Forsyth’s 1851 book and Sam Fadala’s writings argued for this exact set up in a black powder hunting gun.)



This works pretty well…there’s several sets of muley antlers to prove it.

Of my 5 round ball guns all are 54 cal…the fast twist is 1:66 all others are 1:72 to 1:75 twists…the reason for these slow twist rates is the guns ability to maintain accuracy with large charges of powder….

The reason for large charges of powder is more to flatten the trajectory than to deliver more energy…it’s just the nature of the round ball projectile…

So I use 70grs of 2f and just the patch for target/casual shooting fun.
Hunting loads are 140grs of 2f, a felt wad then the tightly fitting patched ball…rare, but follow up shots take a .005 smaller ball.

With fixed sights 150yds is my point blank…for my western hunting that last 50yd “gain” of less bullet drop is substantial and the whole reason for the slo twists and the extra powder…(James Forsyth’s 1851 book and Sam Fadala’s writings argued for this exact set up in a black powder hunting gun.)

This works pretty well…there’s several sets of muley antlers to prove it.

Not trying to argue or insult people here, just to clarify the realities of hunting with ml west of the Mississippi. Last fall, while hunting near Glasgow, MT, I stopped the truck to chat with a couple of hunters. They were using 7mm Magnums and such, as most shots that presented themselves were being taken at ranges in excess of 250 yards and out to 500+ yards. I saw their faces and could see them snicker when they heard I was using a ml. I said, "We know the odds..." Well, I managed to get a buck at 90 yards verified with a rangefinder. If I had waited for a shot at 30-50 yards which is common for eastern white tail hunters, it might have taken 2-3 hunting seasons just to get that close. I was using 100 gr of 2F in my 50 cal. GPR. That put my shots 3in high at 100 yards. I practiced at that range, and I was confident. I did not practice at 150 yards, and would not attempt a shot at that range, but I would've been tempted to try an elk at 125 yards. Let me go on record that 100 yards is a close shot when hunting elk or mule deer. Sure, you might get closer, but don't count on it any time soon. Like Patched says, gotta use enough powder to flatten that trajectory.

 

[Topsail]

30 years ago when I got my first flintlock, a 58 cal long stock Hawken with a 1-72 twist 36 inch barrel, I used 70 gr 2f as a target load with a 270 gr round ball. My powder measure was a 300 Win Mag case cut off at the shoulder. My hunting load was 2 powder measures for 140 gr. Very accurate and killed at both ends. Now that I am older, I use 70 gr for everything.

 

[BP Addict]

It depends on what I’m using it for:

Target Loads with Cotton Patched Round Balls:

32 caliber Traditions Crockett with 32” Barrel – 20 grains of 3F BP

40 caliber Issac Haines with 38” Barrel – 40 Grains of 3F BP

45 Caliber Pedersoli Poorboy with 39” Barrel – 60 grains of 3F BP

50 Caliber CVA Hawken with 28” Barrel – 60 grains of 2F BP

54 caliber Astorian with 30” barrel – 70 grains of 2F BP

62 caliber Green River Forge Trade Gun – 60 grains of 2F BP (Lighter charge due to no rifling to overcome)

The last deer I shot was @ 30 yards with a CVA Stalker that had a 28” 1-32 Twist barrel; 90 grains of 2F BP and a 385-grain Great Plains bullet. It was definitely OVERKILL!

A buddy of mine down south of me uses a 50 caliber (probably a Hawken style) with 60 grains for deer and 80 for elk. He says he doesn’t need more than that. Another fellow in the gun club says he uses the same.

I believe most of these large loads were found not only in some of the old (before the warnings and legalese) Owner’s Manuals. Many of the books written by Sam Fadala for Lyman and Gun Digest also listed these higher charges for hunting.

I once did an experiment of loading down @ 25 yards using a 50 caliber CVA Hawken Rifle with a 28” Barrel; 30, 40, 50, and 60 grains. They all hit the target but 60 had a tighter group.

Walt

 

[William Sublette]

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/the-horace-kephart-hawken.124097/

 

[Bushfire]

@Redturd Reloader and @Patched

Same deal where I hunt and I think it's part of the reason why easterners can't understand the need for higher charges and flatter trajectory. I don't mind people using less, but it's irritating when people want to high horse use of bare bones powder puff loads.

Big difference between a 90lb whitetail at 40 yards and a huge bull elk at 120 yards. Red deer are the same here, big deer and rarely in close.

Good luck using squib loads in places like this.

 

[Brokennock]

Now that I know what a "tick totter" is I'll say I have never found a tick on any deer I have shot.

Really?
Wow.

 

[Muley Gil]

I use 45 grains of FFFg Goex behind a 500 grain .576" Minie while shooting N-SSA matches. Most skirmishers use loads in the 40-50 grain range. I have known a number who have taken whitetail deer with these "target" loads. Most have been one shot kills.

 

[toot]

Dang. I'm afraid to say now

When I was working on a load for my 20ga Fusil de Chasse 70gr of 3F seemed to work best with RB.
50yds
View attachment 192066


But in my .45 with 42" Colerain barrel I'm shooting 90gr of 3F with a RB. I just kept working my way up until the group opened, then settled on 90. Recoil seems light to me.
50yds. It drops about 3" at 100, but I can't find a pic of that for some reason. It must be in a different folder.
View attachment 192069


Other guns I'm trying to shoot what I've read. And is accurate.
60gr+filler in my 1859 Sharps
3@50 w/ scope
View attachment 192071

95gr of 2F in my Brown Bess (to account for priming and modern BP).
Nice kick. Still need to shoot it off a bench and get used to it to see what an accurate load might be, but I'm not expecting much. In that case I might throttle it down if it's only a 4" group gun/shooter combination.
So no pics of that one yet

was the 20 ga, RB'S patched? a killer group!

 

[Patched]

Not trying to argue or insult people here, just to clarify the realities of hunting with ml west of the Mississippi. Last fall, while hunting near Glasgow, MT, I stopped the truck to chat with a couple of hunters. They were using 7mm Magnums and such, as most shots that presented themselves were being taken at ranges in excess of 250 yards and out to 500+ yards. I saw their faces and could see them snicker when they heard I was using a ml. I said, "We know the odds..." Well, I managed to get a buck at 90 yards verified with a rangefinder. If I had waited for a shot at 30-50 yards which is common for eastern white tail hunters, it might have taken 2-3 hunting seasons just to get that close. I was using 100 gr of 2F in my 50 cal. GPR. That put my shots 3in high at 100 yards. I practiced at that range, and I was confident. I did not practice at 150 yards, and would not attempt a shot at that range, but I would've been tempted to try an elk at 125 yards. Let me go on record that 100 yards is a close shot when hunting elk or mule deer. Sure, you might get closer, but don't count on it any time soon. Like Patched says, gotta use enough powder to flatten that trajectory.

I do consider my roundball guns to be a 100yd proposition…but in practical application in the field, especially in sagebrush country, a mule deer is apt to meander 10 of 30yds again before presenting another shot opportunity…so what started as an 80yd shot could well become a 115yd shot or 130 when the trigger breaks.

Open fixed sights don’t allow much extra fine adjustment at the far end of the gun’s capabilities…but the extra launch velocity, with it’s modest trajectory gain could “pickup the slack”.

I only mention 150 yds because it’s the far extreme of my point blank range…inside of 150 yds my round ball should hit within 6” of where my front sight is when the trigger breaks…

 

[Thomas.bill92]

I shoot 40gr FFFG out of my .40 Kibler SMR, it just happened to be the most accurate when I did my initial load development. After a thousand rounds or so I may ladder test my loads again to see if anything shoots better but I am perfectly content if it stays at 40.