Powder Charges?

[Okie Hog]

Is it fair to say that most traditional muzzleloaders are not meant to use powder charges of more than about 80-90 grains or so?

IMO: Absolutely not.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone know of a chronograph data chart that shows velocities for various powder loads with PRBs in various caliber rifles?

TraditionalMLdata1 (namlhunt.com)

Round ball calculator:

Rb ballistics (ctmuzzleloaders.com)

 

[Muddly]

I shoot all kinds of muzzleloaders, in .50 and .54 calibers. They all shoot just dandy with 70 grain charges of 3f Swiss. Its nice on the shoulder AND I get one hundred shots per pound. Easy to keep track of things.
If one enjoys heavy charges, and the rifle doesn't mind, by all means charge on. But you don't need to pour half a can of powder down bore to kill a critter.

 

[Sun City]

Some old f.rts don't like recoil!

 

[oldwood]

I once put a patched round ball diagonally through a white tail buck. Broke the left front shoulder ,heart/lung, and finally guts to under the skin of the opposite ham. Rifle was a standard home built .50 cal. longrifle using 80 gr. FFFG , and .490 patch round ball. Have a young friend living in Colorado. that uses a similar rifle and load , that routinely kills a mule deer , or an elk. Same ball , same load. I've used .58's , .62's , but the .62's need a little more powder than I care to use to give flat shooting efficiency at 100 yds. . At 74 yrs . old , I'm back to using a .50 w/ .490 r/b and 80 gr. FFFG , and a 6 lb. long rifle and peep sight because of old eyes. Conclusion on this home grown research............good enough accuracy ,plus acceptable ball size will "git-er-done w/o punishing recoil, ........oldwood

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I prefer this ballistics calculator to the CT one. Ballistic coefficient for the .530 round ball is .075 .490 is .068, and .440 is .060

Shooter's Calculator

LD

 

[Art Caputo]

My powder charges for the last few decades in rifles from 45-58 caliber have spanned 55-80gr(58cal) of 3F. No problems killing deer at my typical shooting range 25-70 yards given good shot placement. My first 50 cal TC Hawken back in the 70’s came with a manual listing charge/velocities to a max load o 110gr FFG with a patched LRB. Common practice amongst the crowd I shot with was to shoot targets with 70gr, and hunt with 100gr without paying too much mind as long as we could hit the intended target/vital area size, paper or fur. It wasn’t until I switched from percussion to flintlock a few years later when I backed off my charge weights with little effect on target/hunting success and less powder consumed.

 

[Rum River]

In the 50's and 54's I own right around 80-85 grs. FFg ends up the best performance for round ball. Once had a 50 that only shot a good group with 60 grs. My wife made a good shot on the rib cage of a six point at 20 yards, in that particular case the ball did not exit. We did get the animal but it went 100+ yards.

I have a .72 double rifle that really likes 90 grs. FFg with .715 ball. I've always figured with the larger bore diameter that makes sense.

Heaviest charge I've used is 100 grs. FFg in a T/C Hawken 50 when trying to get a hollow based minie ball to work. The alloy was perhaps harder than it should have been (wild guess on my part) and the heavier charge appeared to be needed to flare the skirt into the washed-out rifling that rifle had. (My first muzzle loader purchased VERY used.) The next batch of those bullets I bought wouldn't stay on a #3 washtub at 100 yards no matter what I tried. Different alloy?, different mold(s)?, who knows.....

 

[roundballman]

My 50's and 54's shoot best with 70 to 80 yrs FFg and patched round balls. All my deer shot with those loads up to 75 yds resulted in pass through wounds, heavy and short blood trails.

 

[brewer12345]

Heaviest charge I've used is 100 grs. FFg in a T/C Hawken 50 when trying to get a hollow based minie ball to work. The alloy was perhaps harder than it should have been (wild guess on my part) and the heavier charge appeared to be needed to flare the skirt into the washed-out rifling that rifle had. (My first muzzle loader purchased VERY used.) The next batch of those bullets I bought wouldn't stay on a #3 washtub at 100 yards no matter what I tried. Different alloy?, different mold(s)?, who knows.....

Funny. I used a Grey Hawk for my first two ML deer. It shoots very well with conicals, but 54 conicals are heavy and recoil is a bit much for me with that light a rifle. So I spent a bunch of time working up a PRB load with Black MZ. After a whole bunch of load work up, I finally got very good accuracy with an over powder wad and a whopping 110 grains of powder. Recoil wasn't as punishing as the conicals (which were almost an ounce of lead), but it was definitely noticeable. I should go back and try again with a different powder to see if I can get better results without such a big charge, but the rifle became my backup/loaner for hunting and I moved on to other things for target work.

That much powder sure does fling the ball, though. The second deer was a Texas heart shot at 60 or so yards. Broke the big thigh bone and went all the way through the hundred pound button buck, lodging in the front shoulder.

 

[Okie Hog]

Tests of Black MZ powder and patched round balls:

TraditionalMLdata5 (namlhunt.com)

 

[brewer12345]

Tests of Black MZ powder and patched round balls:

TraditionalMLdata5 - NORTH AMERICAN MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Something seems to be wrong with the link.

 

[Okie Hog]

Something seems to be wrong with the link.

OOPS. Fixed it.

 

[brewer12345]

OOPS. Fixed it.

Interesting data. I really haven't bothered with a chronograph, knowing that any charge 60 grains on up should do it at the ranges I will take shots.

 

[Okie Hog]

More .50 caliber loads:

TraditionalMLdata1 (namlhunt.com)

 

[William Lincoln]

People way overcharge their rifles. Put more on the heavier conicals,
but PRB top out at 100 grs. or so. Black MZ was one of the better subs
and now with Goex down maybe they could bring back Black MZ.

 

[brewer12345]

People way overcharge their rifles. Put more on the heavier conicals,
but PRB top out at 100 grs. or so. Black MZ was one of the better subs
and now with Goex down maybe they could bring back Black MZ.

It is being made by the original manufacturer under the American Pioneer and Shooter's World brands. It was available at graf's a few weeks ago.

 

[Okie Hog]

Black MZ was one of the better subs
and now with Goex down maybe they could bring back Black MZ.

Black MZ is gone forever. American Pioneer Powder made Black MZ for Alliant. APP is is making a new powder called Shooters World Multi-Purpose FFF. My chrono tests show it is comparable to Black MZ.

 

[Loja man]

This is helpful and interesting. Being newer to black powder community I have been learning as much as I can. In the past couple years I have shot 80 grains Tripple 7 FFFG in my 50 CAL for deer hunting. Just finished a Traditions Kentucky rifle kit. Have another post dealing with sitting it in. Long story short I had hoped to stay in that 80 grains of Tripple 7 FFFG of powder but it kicked like a muel and was not as accurate as I wanted. Still have a bit of a swollen check and the start to a black eye!! So after several range trips I am at 60 grains of Tripple 7 FFFG. We’ll soon see how it dose on whitetail!!!

 

[flashpoint]

I shoot a TC .45 Seneca with 70grains of 2F behind my PRB. I believe the TC manual says max is 80 grains of 2F. I couldn't imagine using 100 to 120 grains and feel safe about it.

 

[William Lincoln]

Hey Loja man. Try real black powder. Go with 70grs of 2F in your Longrifle. Less kick. also
get a shooting vest or jacket with padding. The small increase triple 7 gives is not important.
Ya if you were shooting across a canyon at 250 yds maybe. But also maybe not. Real Black
powder is a very powerful propellant still used in modern warfare. If you stay with Triple 7
go down to 60 grains. 80 grains is not needed. Put up some 3/4" thick plywood targets.
Now try your loads. Very eye opening- The power of 70 grs Black and 60 grs T-7.! Too much
recoil leads to being gun-shy and affects aiming the rifle/gun. Remember powder charts
from manufacturers want to keep the consumption high as they can safely recommend.
You can even go lower than I am recommending. A 45-50 cal Hawken type rifle with 70 grains of
real Black Powder and a round ball will take deer across America. Sometimes with the
experience in mind, Less is More.