Powderhorn question

[Burningprince]

Ok probably a dumb question or one that pops up alot.How did they get the right grains of powder down bore with a horn?Was it a count of some kind like 1,2,3 that's enough or what?

 

[rabjr]

How did they get the right grains of powder down bore with a horn?

They used a measure of some sort.

 

[David W.]

Ok probably a dumb question or one that pops up alot.How did they get the right grains of powder down bore with a horn?Was it a count of some kind like 1,2,3 that's enough or what?

Who ever pours powder directly from the horn into a barrel can only quess how many grains have been poured, which is a poor (pun intended) method of measuring and can lead to catistophic disasters. Look ma, no hands! :rotf: :youcrazy: :nono:

 

[Burningprince]

i have an adjustable measure i'll be using,you just see in movies that they do it and i couldn't find any historical references to it

 

[Zonie]

Although I have no proof I suspect that "back in the days", even when a person's life was on the line when reloading with a powder horn the powder was thrown into an open hand and then poured down the barrel unless they were mounted on horseback.

Without actually seeing the powder a person would have no idea how much powder was pouring from a horn it it were just stuck into the end of the gun and left to flow on its own. It might pour 150 grains or 0.

The movie makers are interested in making an exciting movie and seldom have any real regard for history or how things were really done.

 

[LaBonte]

There are period citations for pouring directly from the horn, but the method was generally only used in a couple of instances where life and limb were already in danger - normal method was to use a measure or to pour powder into the hand first then the barrel:
1) Lewis Wetzel and other forntiersmen of the day have been cited as pouring directly from the horn when engaged in battle and/or on the run and at short distances

2) During buffalo running on horseback loading from the horn was mostly the norm.

The methodology for such speed loading was and is:
1) Count while pouring the powder - once practiced it is actually a quite good method and will pour out close to the wanted amount within 3-5 grains. Loads in the past were generally smaller than the magnum loads often used today so a 3-5 grain overcharge is negligible.
2) The unpatched balls were normally kept in the mouth and then loaded by hand not spit down the barrel. In a dirty bore and along with the spit the ball will stay in place quite well, but the shot needs to be taken quickly.


Well respected modern experimental archeologist types like Mark Baker, Curt Schmidt, and others have practiced the method under controlled conditons and with LOTS of practice it is a useful method.

BUT - caveat it is a method that was originally used only under specific conditions such as when one's life was in immediate danger and at short range. For the average or new guy this is NOT and should not be considered a method that is either safe or to be practiced/used lightly.....

 

[ohio ramrod]

In battle it was pour and shoot!. Many had powder measures, some put a ball in the hand and poured powder to cover the ball. Some held two or three fingers sideways at the top of the muzzle and poured "Two fingers" or "Three fingers " of powder.Some used a flask with spout and cut off. I suppose there were other methods that I have not yet read about as well. :hmm:

 

[tg]

I suspect a short count of some type would get close enough for quick shots, one can practice with a tube that dumps into vessal that can be measured with a scales or volme type device, this would likely be as close as a pile in the hand.

 

[David W.]

This post is NOT directed at any one individual.

I DO NOT suggest anyone loading directly from a powder horn for any reason what-so-ever. It is NOT SAFE and can lead to PERSONAL INJURY. That is why I would not even consider discussing how many second count, pile in the hand approximation, consulting your local tarrot card reader, or any other method other than pouring powder down the barrel via a MEASURE or some other devise that is entirely disconnected and seperate from a powder horn or any other black powder mass storage container or vessel. :shake:

 

[tg]

No arguement there the question was directed at a historical point of view questioning details about what may ahave been a practice in the past.If someone new to the sport has reda the manual and asked around aboutn accesories and details about the sport and still chooses to pour from the horn, then there just maybe something to all the posts that say our ancestors were as smart or smarter than we are and woulda if they coulda.The pile in the hand is an accepted method for charging a gun today as it would make litle difference whether the charge went off if in the hand or the measuring device, the hand might even be better.

 

[David W.]

No arguement there the question was directed at a historical point of view questioning details about what may ahave been a practice in the past.If someone new to the sport has reda the manual and asked around aboutn accesories and details about the sport and still chooses to pour from the horn, then there just maybe something to all the posts that say our ancestors were as smart or smarter than we are and woulda if they coulda.The pile in the hand is an accepted method for charging a gun today as it would make litle difference whether the charge went off if in the hand or the measuring device, the hand might even be better.

The only method I know of that was used is to place a ball in the hand and cover it with powder. I understand this was an accepted practice to determine the powder charge.

I Just do not want a newbie reading this thread and assuming pouring powder from the horn to the barrel is a good thing to do, because it's not. It's OK in the movies, but NOT in real life.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

The only method I know of that was used is to place a ball in the hand and cover it with powder. I understand this was an accepted practice to determine the powder charge.

I Just do not want a newbie reading this thread and assuming pouring powder from the horn to the barrel is a good thing to do, because it's not. It's OK in the movies, but NOT in real life.

You'll find 19th century references (dunno about earlier) to "loading from the hand" wherein one uses the measuring spout of one's powder flask, but dumps the powder into the palm of the other hand as an intermediate vessel, then from the hand into the barrel. These references were sometimes accompanied by an injunction to "new sportsmen" and/or a general reminder to never load directly from the flask, excepting only where the utmost speed of reloading is literally a life-and-death matter, and often followed by an anecdote recounting one of these exploding flask/horn disasters.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Bill Hall]

Yep, looks really cool in the movies, but very inaccurate, and VERY DANGEROUS! I'm sure the shooters of old had the same need for accurate powder measurement as we do today. And since they they weren't dumb, I'm sure some sort of measurement, outside of the horn, was the norm.

I remember as a kid seeing a painting of a Rev war skirmsh in the woods. It shows one of the American frontiersmen with a powder horn tipped into the muzzle of his long rifle. I guess it looks cool in paintings also. Bill