I was kinda wondering that my ownself . . .
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I think alot of people shoot BP for the extra week of deer hunting and then return to their centerfire weapons. Georgia does not have a "muzzle loading season", we have a "primitive weapons season". In the near future, the modern BP shooters may learn the difference between the two the hard way
I guess if you're not attracted to the historical aspect of learning the crafts of our forefathers, the gun is simply a "tool".
I'll stay with the PRB.
I guess if you're not attracted to the historical aspect of learning the crafts of our forefathers, the gun is simply a "tool".
I'll stay with the PRB.
I love my PRB's for various reasons:
First, PRB'S are what muzzleloading is all about. The roundball is the classic projectile for all muzzleloaders and was used all around the world in nearly all important battles for a long time.
Second, if I feel the need for a conical heavyweight bullet I'll grab myself a modern hunting rifle like a .375. or .450 Marlin. But that has nothing to do with traditional shooting.
Third, the PRB out of close to medium distance makes a impressive wound channel, and with a proper load it will penetrate through a deer or a hog easily out of 100 yds so there is no need for a projectile with more sectional density. Heck, I've heard that with a .69 you can shoot through a brickwall....
And a PRB can be loaded very fast, I didnt stop the time but I guess I can do the whole procedure inclusive pouring powder into the barrel in roughly eight seconds.(without cleaning the barrel)
First, PRB'S are what muzzleloading is all about. The roundball is the classic projectile for all muzzleloaders and was used all around the world in nearly all important battles for a long time.
Second, if I feel the need for a conical heavyweight bullet I'll grab myself a modern hunting rifle like a .375. or .450 Marlin. But that has nothing to do with traditional shooting.
Third, the PRB out of close to medium distance makes a impressive wound channel, and with a proper load it will penetrate through a deer or a hog easily out of 100 yds so there is no need for a projectile with more sectional density. Heck, I've heard that with a .69 you can shoot through a brickwall....
And a PRB can be loaded very fast, I didnt stop the time but I guess I can do the whole procedure inclusive pouring powder into the barrel in roughly eight seconds.(without cleaning the barrel)
I just enjoy the ritual of powder, patch, ball...
Shooting muzzleloaders isn't about shortcuts, it's about accepting the challenge of a primitive weapon and practicing until you get good at it. If you accept a "one shot" attitude, shaving 8 seconds off your reload time isn't important. Just be very careful in your shot selection.
It's a personal thing, everybody should be able to do what they want I guess. Just seems to me like you might be missing out on a big part of the fun...
:hatsoff:
Spot
Shooting muzzleloaders isn't about shortcuts, it's about accepting the challenge of a primitive weapon and practicing until you get good at it. If you accept a "one shot" attitude, shaving 8 seconds off your reload time isn't important. Just be very careful in your shot selection.
It's a personal thing, everybody should be able to do what they want I guess. Just seems to me like you might be missing out on a big part of the fun...
:hatsoff:
Spot
i've tried all the conicals, saboted pistol bullets but never tried the powerbelts in my 1/48" T/C hawken....i now am all PRB all the way....right now i buy a 100 prelubed patches at a time at bout 4.00....
box of 100 .50 hornady .490 balls at 7.50....
a pound of goex 3f powder fer bout 15.00....fer a total of 26.50 fer a 100 rounds of PRB....since there is 7000 grains to a pound of powder and i shoot 70 grains per load that works out to 100 rounds per pound of powder....ya just gotta learn what yer gun likes to spit out the barrel, that's the fun part to learning and shooting PRB :v ................bob
box of 100 .50 hornady .490 balls at 7.50....
a pound of goex 3f powder fer bout 15.00....fer a total of 26.50 fer a 100 rounds of PRB....since there is 7000 grains to a pound of powder and i shoot 70 grains per load that works out to 100 rounds per pound of powder....ya just gotta learn what yer gun likes to spit out the barrel, that's the fun part to learning and shooting PRB :v ................bob
Kentuckywindage
62 Cal.
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Where are you buying your balls for $7.50 a box? Its costing me almost $12 around here.
E Poffinbarger
40 Cal.
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Tweesdad:
For what its worth;
Many years ago when I got into muzzleloaders, everyone said that any of the Hawkin Bros style rifles would shoot either balls or bullets with an equal level of accuracy.
Incorrectly thinking that a bullet shaped projectile would inherently be more accurate than a patched round ball I decided that I would pursue a muzzleloader type & style that would accurately shoot homecast solid lead projectiles, since it is cheaper to make them than buy them.
Criteria; traditional style rifle, iron sights
Fortunately I had a friend who seemed to have a least one of every caliber, type and style muzzleloader available, unfortunately none were very well maintained. Over the course of one summer I repaired, cleaned, polished and shot almost every one of them.
To make a long story short, "When the smoke finally cleared" for a hunting environment here were my conclusions:
1. With no disrespect intended to the Hawkin Bros, I totally disagree that 1:48 is the optimum rate-of-twist for either ball or bullet.
2. For 75-100 yards a correctly loaded slow twist patched ball rifle is very hard to beat with regard to accuracy.
2. Beyond 100 yards a fast twist bullet rifle has more knock-down power and tighter groups.
3. Caliber .54 is less affected by residual barrel fouling than smaller calibers and maintains a flatter tragectory than larger calibers.
In summary, I own two Hawkin sytle .54 caliber rifles; a slow twist 1:60 patched ball rifle and a fast twist 1:32 bullet rifle. I home cast the solid lead projectiles for both rifles, which makes shooting rather inexpensive.
Osage
For what its worth;
Many years ago when I got into muzzleloaders, everyone said that any of the Hawkin Bros style rifles would shoot either balls or bullets with an equal level of accuracy.
Incorrectly thinking that a bullet shaped projectile would inherently be more accurate than a patched round ball I decided that I would pursue a muzzleloader type & style that would accurately shoot homecast solid lead projectiles, since it is cheaper to make them than buy them.
Criteria; traditional style rifle, iron sights
Fortunately I had a friend who seemed to have a least one of every caliber, type and style muzzleloader available, unfortunately none were very well maintained. Over the course of one summer I repaired, cleaned, polished and shot almost every one of them.
To make a long story short, "When the smoke finally cleared" for a hunting environment here were my conclusions:
1. With no disrespect intended to the Hawkin Bros, I totally disagree that 1:48 is the optimum rate-of-twist for either ball or bullet.
2. For 75-100 yards a correctly loaded slow twist patched ball rifle is very hard to beat with regard to accuracy.
2. Beyond 100 yards a fast twist bullet rifle has more knock-down power and tighter groups.
3. Caliber .54 is less affected by residual barrel fouling than smaller calibers and maintains a flatter tragectory than larger calibers.
In summary, I own two Hawkin sytle .54 caliber rifles; a slow twist 1:60 patched ball rifle and a fast twist 1:32 bullet rifle. I home cast the solid lead projectiles for both rifles, which makes shooting rather inexpensive.
Osage
Nathan Ripley
36 Cal.
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Prb for me. I was shooting by a fellow new to muzzleloading the other day. He had one of the new inline kits. He noticed my cheek bulge and asked to borrow a chew. You should have seen his face when I handed him a handful of patches. After his initial assessment of me being a smartbutt, I suspect he will be converted.
410-er--I agree with you on the quick follow up shot!
410-er--I agree with you on the quick follow up shot!
"With no disrespect intended to the Hawkin Bros, I totally disagree that 1:48 is the optimum rate-of-twist for either ball or bullet.'
The Hawkin Bros, had nothing to do with the optimum twist for ball and buller, their guns had deep rifleing which makes the difference, TC came upon the optimum twist with shallow rifling that they felt gave the option to shoot balls or their own desingned maxis, it was pure luck that the twist itself was the same as many earlier guns, as they had little knowledge and did litle research on originals to develope their "Hawkin"
The Hawkin Bros, had nothing to do with the optimum twist for ball and buller, their guns had deep rifleing which makes the difference, TC came upon the optimum twist with shallow rifling that they felt gave the option to shoot balls or their own desingned maxis, it was pure luck that the twist itself was the same as many earlier guns, as they had little knowledge and did litle research on originals to develope their "Hawkin"
Tweesdad said:
I suggest ya get in touch with someone that Does know T/C Hawkens and you may be truely suprised of what that T/C Hawken can really do with that lil round ball.
And as for loads & etc. on your rifle, I suggest ya PM Roundball on this site. He shoots strictly T/C's and I know for a fact he shoots some awesome groups with them. Get the Details of what he is doing & how he does it. He is a nice guy, very helpful & always generous with his T/C info.
:wink:
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
Kentuckywindage said:
Make mine for free. Out od scrap lead.
BTW a guy here at rondys sells balls for $6.50-$8 per 100.
Yesterday I killed three squirrels with the 36 using roundball. Do they make 36 caliber powderpuffs?
I fired about 20 shots thru the Mountain rifle making sure everything was still fine with it. How much do 20 powderpuffs cost again?
Powderpuffs are ok for the guy not really into the hobby that only shoots his muzzleloader a few times a year, doesn't want to be bothered with learning the ins and outs of roundball, and doesn't mind shooting expensive bullets at game. Even then you would be much better off calling Cecil at Precision and getting some better bullets than powderpuffs! The powderpuffs preformance on game is reported to be everything from blowing up on contact to a single hole all the way thru like they were a hard round ball. Hit game with an Ultimate Hollowpoint and you will begin to see the Light!
The only place a conical has an advantage over a roundball is when the range gets out beyond normal open sight muzzleloader ranges.
Most clubs do not allow anything but patched roundball to be used on their ranges around here. I shoot about 500 or so a year for practice and that would be a lot more if not for the pellet rifles. What does 500 powderpuffs cost again?
If not for the hours spent with the gun in my hand shooting it, I would not be nearly as effective a hunter as I am. I load hollowpoint conicals in beginners guns because I want a good blood trail to find their game with. They often are not clear on exactly where the animal was standing or even where they last saw the animal. I need all the help I can get in that case. Conicals almost always exit creating a fast developing blood trail.
Last box of 100 495's I bought cost me almost 10$ Powerbelts would cost what?
Not picking on you, but there really are reasons most of us shoot roundball!
I fired about 20 shots thru the Mountain rifle making sure everything was still fine with it. How much do 20 powderpuffs cost again?
Powderpuffs are ok for the guy not really into the hobby that only shoots his muzzleloader a few times a year, doesn't want to be bothered with learning the ins and outs of roundball, and doesn't mind shooting expensive bullets at game. Even then you would be much better off calling Cecil at Precision and getting some better bullets than powderpuffs! The powderpuffs preformance on game is reported to be everything from blowing up on contact to a single hole all the way thru like they were a hard round ball. Hit game with an Ultimate Hollowpoint and you will begin to see the Light!
The only place a conical has an advantage over a roundball is when the range gets out beyond normal open sight muzzleloader ranges.
Most clubs do not allow anything but patched roundball to be used on their ranges around here. I shoot about 500 or so a year for practice and that would be a lot more if not for the pellet rifles. What does 500 powderpuffs cost again?
If not for the hours spent with the gun in my hand shooting it, I would not be nearly as effective a hunter as I am. I load hollowpoint conicals in beginners guns because I want a good blood trail to find their game with. They often are not clear on exactly where the animal was standing or even where they last saw the animal. I need all the help I can get in that case. Conicals almost always exit creating a fast developing blood trail.
Last box of 100 495's I bought cost me almost 10$ Powerbelts would cost what?
Not picking on you, but there really are reasons most of us shoot roundball!
Snakebite
45 Cal.
To me, and this is just my own personaly feeling, muzzleloading is more than another way to kill a deer. It's the tradition and history of the firearm that matters most. When I go hunting or fishing, it's not the taking of the game which is most important, it's being with friends and sharing the experience. The game is just one of the highlights of the whole thing. It may not always be the most important, but it's up there. If you're going to shoot conicals or sabots, inlines, "traditional" rifles with scopes on them, or just use the rifle for an advatage of a longer hunting season, that's fine, but it just isn't what shooting a muzzleloader is really about. I just can't accept that using a modern rifle which you just happen to dump powder or a pellet down the muzzle, then stick a bullet on top is traditional or primitive. But that's just me.
Blizzard of '93
Cannon
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I've taken several deer with a PRB out of my .50 caplock - overall the hunt for deer has sort of lost it's excitement to me. I am however looking forward to a possible S. Carolina hunt for feral hogs which is why I've been practicing with a REAL slug in my .50
I've taken 2 with C&B revolvers (.44 cal) loaded to the max but I had a companion w/me in the blind that had a .12 ga. BP shotgun 'just in case' BTW he also got one with his shotty and buckshot.
I personally feel that a heavy slug may be called for on these tough animals but have no doubt a PRB out of a .50 will do the job w/good placement.
I've taken 2 with C&B revolvers (.44 cal) loaded to the max but I had a companion w/me in the blind that had a .12 ga. BP shotgun 'just in case' BTW he also got one with his shotty and buckshot.
I personally feel that a heavy slug may be called for on these tough animals but have no doubt a PRB out of a .50 will do the job w/good placement.
Guest
Powder puff??? I thought a powder puff was something ya use on a babies behind!! What does powder puffs have to do with hunting? 
pchwcf50110
40 Cal.
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don't worry about it Tweedsdad. i've always been a bullet man in the smaller calibers(.45,.50,.54) myself. i do shoot PRB's but only in my .62 and .72 rifles. like someone mentioned Great Plains or Buffalo bullets are much cheaper than powerbelts. PRB's are much easier to use if the rifle barrel was made exclusively for them in the first place.
Kentuckywindage
62 Cal.
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30 225 grain aerotips in .45cal cost me $30 shipped. As for the " Not wanting to learn how to shoot PRB" Thats not true at all. Some states such as Colorado require a minimum projectile weight of 170 grains. A .45 is 42 grains under that requirement. Now for target shooting, im loaded up with a .440 roundball and .015 patch.
Powerbelts, i simply use during hunting season so i meet the requirements. Plus they shoot really good at 200 yards :haha:
And when i take my .50 or .54 hunting with PRB, I use speedloaders so i can reload quickly if a follow up shot is needed.
Powerbelts, i simply use during hunting season so i meet the requirements. Plus they shoot really good at 200 yards :haha:
And when i take my .50 or .54 hunting with PRB, I use speedloaders so i can reload quickly if a follow up shot is needed.
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