PRB...Not for me

[TANSTAAFL]

Of interest to me is the bottom right conical with the narrow base.

Looks like it could be a paper Sharps bullet. I had a Lyman .54 mould like that which facilitated tying off front of the paper cylinder to the base.


Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L. Mencken

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, I take my deer hunting serious and I'm not gonna use any projectile called a "commical."

Patched round balls for me, yes sir.

I'm not doing well with Zonie's trick of diggin them out and reusing them. Only ever found one in a carcass, .50 or .54, and that was a cast .50 that went stem-to-stern on a 15 yard frontal and was under the hide in the back end of the buck's hip.

Went down right where he stood.

 

[shortbow]

I could say a lot on this whole topic, but lots of it has already been said, so this'll be short.

PRB, real black powder loaded from the muzzle, flint or percussion hammer sidelock, fixed open sights: That is muzzloading. All the rest mystifies me and makes me gag. But, hey, do your thing and all that. No disrespect, but if the above doesn't satisfy you, why not just grab your Weatherby and use a cartridge that will kill, gut and bloody all the meat in one shot?

And that old saw about "if they'd a had it they'd a used it" just signifies that the speaker misses the whole point of traditional weapons, treking, buckskinning and all the cool primitive living stuff that seeks to flesh out the lives of those who went before. Oh. And a pox on plastic. :blah:

 

[wildeagle]

Tans, I agree, commonlly called " ring tail ". Originals had a more pronounced ring at the base to fascillitate tying the paper wrapped charge. The 1st slug is a enfield, 2nd is a gardiner ( paper wrapped charge swaged to the slug ), 3rd appears to be a williams cleaner ( zinc ring between thumb tack pressed into base ) used to clean fouling from bore,4th is standard three ring union slug. what is misleading is that the grease rings on these repos are flat like modern REAL 's or maxis, the originals have a much different cross section.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

AHH, thanks for that enlightening post GMWW, that upper right corner slug with flat base seems to be maybe the forerunner of the Lee REAL slug! which I have been have been experimenting with to have more 'whompability'(?) at longer range than the PRB, this for hunting feral hogs, a tough critter and very wary.
IIRC an English officer was experimenting with some sort of conical during the American Revolution fired in a rifle of his design.

 

Gentlemen,
I am still willing to listen to any reasonable advice, based upon actual hunting experience.
When I have the time, I still hunt hooved orchard rats (deer), and feel that a PRB is more than enough for them, and I will try it this season.
Now, as to real big game. If you have had personal experience hunting Black Bear,(I have taken 2) Brown Bear (1), Moose (2), Caribou (4), Boar (7), or Pronghorn (1) with a .50 PRB, tell me about it. I am more than willing to learn from an experienced hunter.
Anyone can "talk the talk", but if you haven't "walked the walk" you speak out of ignorance. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, your opinion is worthless. Theory, is just that, theory.
I never claimed or intimated that I wanted to run around dressed in buckskins, living out a Daniel Boone dream. If that is your game, go for it. I use all my firearms and spare time to either target shoot or hunt.
I came to this site in what appears to be the mistaken belief that I would be treated decently, as a neophyte, with a desire to learn. WRONG.
To those of you who responded in a meaningful manner, I thank you. You have been most helpful.
As for the rest, I will continue to spend my time with other real hunters, and leave you to continue prancing through the woods, in your coon- skin caps playing Pioneer.
Thank you.

 

[roundball]

I never claimed or intimated that I wanted to run around dressed in buckskins, living out a Daniel Boone dream.
..................
I will continue to spend my time with other real hunters, and leave you to continue prancing through the woods, in your coon- skin caps playing Pioneer.

Interesting closing remarks...I sayed out of this thread as there seemed to be an edge to the attitude, but I think you just crossed a line and somebody needs to clarify something for you.

1) Its actually a rare case where traditional minded individuals "run around the woods in "coonskin hats", or any kind of period specific clothing, and on the rare occasion that they might try it, it's usually with a couple of close friends for the experience of it. Pretty sure the vast majority wear good quality gore-tex, fleece, thinsulate, etc, type hunting clothes...I know I do.

2) Our interest is mainly hunting with the technology limitations that the settlers were forced to use as that's all they had at the time...most of us have lifetime accumulations of top quality Remingtons & Leupold scopes just laying oiled in their cases and set them aside because there's no challenge in shooting big game with modern high power big scope sighted rifles...10 year old kids do that all the time from the moment their dads start them out hunting.

3) I guess I didn't see where you were terribly mis-treated in this thread and am disappointed for you that you chose to make the kind of closing remarks that you did...making demeaning comments in an attempt to put down traditional minded muzzleloading enthusiasts just shows a level of arrogance and imaturity, and doesn't actually bother us in the least because we don't "run around the woods in coonskin caps" in the first place.

I hope you find another forum that suits your attitudes better...and remember to watch that muzzle...you shot yourself in the foot with that closing statement.

:v

 

[tg]

" I will continue to spend my time with other real hunters,"

I do hope you don't trip on your ego and injure yourself.

and Cooner hit the hail on the head, if you contact any of the modern bullet manufactures and ask them what research into original conicals was a part of developing their modern bullets the answer will be none, I did this a number of years ago via e-mail, phone and letter, and once again the point is not that they are bad just not traditional projectiles other than the few that are based on original designs.

 

[tg]

"1) Its actually a rare case where traditional minded individuals "run around the woods in "coonskin hats","

Well Roundball I confess that I did have a coonskin hat at one time but I usually walked not run in the woods when hunting.and I do think this poster has gotten in return pretty much the attitude he put forth from the getgo, up till now I don't recall a poster that I could actually say that I would not care to put a face on a name,no animosity, just indifference to an inflated sense of personal accomplishment and total lack of understanding traditional gear and its potential. I hope he enjoys his experience in "traditional" hunting with the TC while at the same time not letting tradition influence his choice of gear....that one really had me thinking.

 

[bwhoffman]

Well sir,
we all came to this site by choice, based on the criteria and info it leads to....Traditional Muzzle loaders. We are all to share info ect. I feel the answers and advice you are seeking wont be in the detail and spectrum you are looking for.

There is however, a person who may be of some value to you, his name is Toby Bridges, and he has done it all.
His gig now is modern rifle performance out of early 1800's style firearms.

I dont place this here to ire you or my fellow forum family members, but just feel that Mr Bridges and yourself have ideals that are similar.

merely my .02, wanted or not, its free and my right,just as all of us have!
Happy trails.

 

[Runner]

Some very good discussion came out of what was an attempt to disrupt. That is why this place is so strong. The information presented is very interesting. I have to play mechanic today, so I can't get out to the woods today! I needed some good reading.

 

[Pork Chop]

This is not directed at Roundball - it is a general comment.

I think that several members were sarcastic and caustic in their replies to Tweesdad. I think that is a poverty as that treatment does nothing but bolster the belief among non-traditionalists that the traditionalists are elitists. Rather than post barbed, sarcastic comments, it would have been much better to post something more compelling without being confrontational. I know that some were probably posted as tongue in cheek remarks, but this was a new member that likely did not know the poster was being facetious.

I like this board a lot, but it is saddening to see that newbies are being turned away by this type of posting. I hope that Tweesdad stays around to give the board another chance, but I doubt it.

I guess the way that I would look at posting a reply is this - if he is attacking, try to understand and reply. If he continues, open a barrage. If he is asking politely, then politely help. Tweesdad's post that started this thread was polite and honest. If you posted on this thread, can you say that your posts were in the same nature?

If we want Tradional muzzleloading to be more than a footnote in modern hunting, we need to be more open and helpful to newcomers. Like the old saying goes, you can attract more flies with honey than with salt...

 

Thank you.

 

[Runner]

BS! He asked a question.

Hence, what does everyone seem to have against conicals in general or Powerbelts in particular?

I answered him politely.

What everyone has against conicals is that for the most part they did not exist in the traditional time period except in some experiments going on in Europe. No one in the new land had acess to them at all. They are not a traditional item.

I was not rude. I did not attack him. I answered his question fully. When he attacked back and used the statements he did, it was pretty plain what the game was. I was rude after that, but it did not have anything to do with a roundball only bias. I hope he finds his way and that there is a place he feels comfortable talking to folks. His big problem this time was someone answering a question he asked. If he continues to attack anyone that answers his questions, then the only place he will get along is somewhere that he doesn't have to ask questions! That is why I suggested that he start his own forum where he could be the expert and answer questions so he would not have to ask any.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Dang, I go to sleep last night in a good mood and i wake up to this? :surrender:

 

[Claude Mathis]

BS! He asked a question.

Hence, what does everyone seem to have against conicals in general or Powerbelts in particular?

I don't see a question in the initial post (unless I misread it). He merely said he preferred powerbelts to roundballs and he wanted everyone to know it. He didn't ask for opinions, advice or comments (that I saw).

Bottom line statement...

"So, for me it does not seem to be worth my while to be using PRBs. I use my M/L as a hunting tool, and given the loading time and energy factors, I think I will stick to Powerbelts".

That statement does not even invite comment. Perhaps we need to be better listeners?

The initial post required no replies or comments at all, unless there was a desire to change his mind. My thought when I read it was, "Cool, whatever works for you". I feel the same when someone says, "I prefer percussion over flint". What do I care? I have no desire to convince them that flint is "better", for whatever reason.

The powerbelt is not Historically Accurate, but we do allow some wiggle-room here for some things.

If we make things too restrictive, this will become a lonely place.

 

[Runner]

So now to be politically correct to all peoples we can not respond to a post unless they ask a question? No one busted his chops until he posted a question and he did not like the answer. Same game as the usual modern shooter BS.
Gotta tell ya Claude. I love this place but if answering a direct question from someone that you are having a discussion with is wrong, then this place is already dead! How about people just act like grown ups in the conversations instead of acting like 13 year olds?

 

Thank you as well.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Runner cant you just let it go and move on? Sure this thread got blown out of the water, so what. Its done and over with, Dont try to keep it going. Just be done with it and leave it as it is.

 

[parrett]

I'm a bit surprised with all the negative comments as well. Unless I have my history wrong, didn't some conicals exist back in the 1800's and weren't they shot from time to time in a front loader? I'm up here in Alaska and I'm going to use conicals when I hunt the big game up here. In fact, I'm going to build a Hawken style rifle with a fast twist this winter. I guess I had better not tell anyone that if I have questions during the build.

My mom taught me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, then say nothing.

Cheers,

Dan

ps. tell me....why did we leave King George III?