Projectiles

[DrahthaarNZ]

Hi There Martin form New Zealand. I have recently acquired a Pederzoli Kentucky long rifle in 45 cal. My question is am I limited to round ball due to what I assume is a very slow twist 1/64? or can I shoot greatplains bulletts or saboted bullets?

Your help will be appreciated.
Marty

 

[pargent]

Round balls yes , but some trials with conicals with different loads may give good results , wait and see what some others come upo with.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well unless it is a very old version that has been discontinued, all of the Pedersoli rifles that could be called a "Kentucky" these days in .45 have a 1:48 twist rate. So you should be able to shoot patched round ball, as well as a conical bullet, providing you find the right conical for the rifle.

Simply because a rifle should shoot conicals resonably well with a 1:48 twist, doesn't mean it will shoot every type of conical bullet design well. For example, my TC New Englander shoots patched round ball well, AND shoots TC brand Maxi-hunter conicals well, but doesn't like TC Maxi-Ball conicals, nor Buffalo Bullets.

LD

 

[wayne terry]

I shoot maxi hunters from T/C out of my Lyman GPR every now and then they do ok with a heavier load and only out to 50 yards or so can't hit much of anything beyond that range.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I’ve done it and the results are usually disappointing. Sure they pack a bigger punch, but they also punch you harder. Round balls are cheap, accurate and effective.
Conicals :
Ӣ Cost more.(a lot more$$$)
Ӣ Load harder
Ӣ Shoot less accurately in every gun I have tried with a slow twist rate.(except one)
Ӣ Lead build up makes the barrel harder to clean
Ӣ They use more powder
Ӣ Can be very hard to load
Ӣ They have a more arced trajectory
I’m sure some of the guys with short fast twist barreled guns will chime in and say they shoot great, but for a long barreled Kentucky rifle I would definitely stick with a round ball.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

With 75gr 3f, you should be right around 2000fps, enough with a round ball to knock just about anything down.

 

[BrownBear]

Long ago I played a fair bit with elongate bullets in slow twists such as yours (in my case both 50 and 54 calibers). Two guns only prove a little, but the lessons certainly affected my outlook.

---At 50 yards, groups were terrible until I got into very hot loads. With charges (and recoil) elevated to the point I was getting really uncomfortable, group sizes finally shrank into the 3"-4" size range.

---Moving back to 100 yards with the same hot loads, I couldn't consistently keep three shots on a 10" x 10" target paper.

---Shorter and lighter bullets performed better than longer, and the longer the bullet the larger the charge that was needed.

My guess is that the elongate bullets needed the high velocities to stabilize, but at my limits only did so marginally. With lower velocities (whether smaller charges or velocity loss with distance), they were notably less stable and tended to wander.

 

[Claude Mathis]

...can I shoot greatplains bulletts or saboted bullets?

Sorry, but we don't discuss sabots here.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Anything more modern than a conical will require a much faster twist rate... and is unnecessary.

Quite frankly, if the fellows who shoot those de-evolved copies of modern rifles designed to get past the modern laws for muzzleloading season by being a muzzleloader, would get a model made in 1:48 or slower and use a patched round ball...they'd find equal or better success to the projectiles they use now (imho). That's a theory, but with some basis in fact.

LD

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have recently acquired a Pederzoli Kentucky long rifle in 45 cal. My question is am I limited to round ball due to what I assume is a very slow twist 1/64?

Think of it instead as: "you are fortunate enough to have a proper twist for the round ball."

 

[Don Steele]

That Sir, is a truly positive re-frame !!
Well Put

 

[longcruise]

Before you do anything, you ought to measure the actual twist in your barrel. If it is 1:48, it should do well with ball or conical. Keep your conical on the short side though. It's the length in relation to caliber that is critical to twist rate. The Greenhill formula is not conclusive on that score but gives a rough idea.

 

[DrahthaarNZ]

Thanks guys this is just what I need. Im new to this so any help is appreciated.

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[ohio ramrod]

You can shoot a hollow based mini if it has a short "band". I could not find any so I made my own mold and my 1/48 guns shoot them well. So if you can find any "down under" give them a try. :idunno:

 

[longcruise]

My .45 with 1:48 twist shot well with a 255 gr wadcutter cast of pure lead from a LEE .452 mold for the .45 long colt. Size can be an issue. Mine just happened to fit well.

 

[rr11]

While a lot of people look at trying different projectiles in traditional muzzle loading firearms,( I have done it my self) I have found that round ball loads do all that I need. They are cheep, accurate and have killed game for hundreds of years. Enjoy your rifle.

 

[nkbj]

And before people had powder the lead round balls were used by warriors in slings. They're that good.
But that doesn't mean I want to give up tinkering.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
If some one is concerned about impact energy.
Here is a resolve.
In my .45 cal. with a 1/60 twist and 40" barrel, with 70 grains of 3f will keep all shots in the 9 ring or better at 50 yards.
Increasing the charge to 80 grains of 3f, and loading two individual patched round balls, will keep both balls in the black at 1" to 1 .5" apart.
at fifty yards.
That is more whack than a bullet, and more tissue damage than a bullet.
You must be careful and make sure both balls are loaded tightly together.
I have never had any safety issues in over than forty years of shooting.
Beyond 75 yards the balls do tend to separate farther, however the first or front ball seems to carry very true.
Remember both balls MUST be patched individually, and no air gap between them.
Try it you will be surprised.
Fred

 

[Billnpatti]

With that slow twist rate, it is not likely to spin the conical bullets sufficiently to stabilize them. This results in a significant loss of accuracy. A barrel with a slow twist rate such as yours is intended to shoot patched round balls. Your rifle will shoot patched round balls quite accurately as soon as you develop a proper load for it. Each rifle is unique and each requires that you spend some time at the range doing load development. I would recommend a .440 ball with a .010 patch. I would start with a load of 45 grains of 3f powder and work up in 5 grain increments until you find the charge that it prefers. Round balls are not a compromise, they have plenty of stopping power for game up to the size of the American white tail deer or that beauty that you have lying on the ground in the photo.

 

[Billnpatti]

Nice animal! Great picture! The country looks just like Texas.