proofing load

[pinemarten]

Hello,

Reading a recent post where someone mentioned a 'proofing load'. Got me wondering...since my new flintlock was never fired, was I supposed to do some kind of testing or proofing for safety? Like a double powder load and string to the trigger kind of deal? I 've been working into the shooting very slowly so that I don't develop bad habits or a flinch. That means I've been dry firing each night after work with wood flint. On weekends I shoot a lot of just powder in the pan without loads to get used to that, then I shoot low powder (50gr) loads in the .50 cal to gradually work up the intensity and prevent flinch. I was planning to move up 10 gr each week or something...
Should I proof? I've never shot more than the 50 gr... If so, how do you do that?

Daniel

 

[Dean2]

You learning routine is sound and once you get to 90 or so grains of powder you have gone far enough.

Without the knowledge and the right equipment do NOT proof your own firearms. To truly proof a gun you need to be able to take several precise before and after measurements as wells as the gear magnaflux or resonant image and check for cracks. I doubt you have the gear or knowledge to do it right and done wrong it can be very dangerous.

 

[mooman76]

I'd just do what you're doing now. Sounds like you have a good handle on it. Myself I would go in 5gr increments but that's me. Maybe up 5 one weekend and another 5 in series the same weekend to get where you want. Nothing wrong with what you're doing and once you get close to where you want, you can go up and down 5gr to see what is more accurate.

 

[galamb]

If you have a barrel from any of the (regular) suppliers - Rice, Colerain, Green Mountain etc there is no need to proof - just stick to their max recommendation.

If you have a T/C, Lyman, Pedersoli, CVA, Traditions etc there is no need to proof - again, just follow their user guides and observe the max loads.

If you found a barrel out in the back 40 or don't know where it came from then maybe you want to proof it.

Personally I have never been inclined to proof any barrel and I install all my own breech plugs which probably puts me more at risk of having a failure that if I was shooting a factory barrel that had at least passed minimal QC from a company that always has half an eye on "liability".

 

[coloradoclyde]

You learning routine is sound and once you get to 90 or so grains of powder you have gone far enough.

Without the knowledge and the right equipment do NOT proof your own firearms. To truly proof a gun you need to be able to take several precise before and after measurements as wells as the gear magnaflux or resonant image and check for cracks. I doubt you have the gear or knowledge to do it right and done wrong it can be very dangerous.

What he said... :thumbsup:

 

[jimmy82]

The rest of the guys are right on. I only add this because it came from a licensed gunsmith when I brought my first homemade flinter to his range.

When testing a new gun with a vent liner or percussion drum, start small, like 20 grs and just a patch, work that up to about 40 or 45 still with just a patch. Then go back down to 30 or so with a ball and work your way up to your hunting/target load.

Keep safety on your side and keep all others to the opposite side of the gun from the vent/drum.

 

[Archer 756]

:surrender: Get a copy of DIXIE catalog and in the rear it tells one how to proof a black powder :thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

Should I proof?

No your not going to have to worry about that with a new build from a contemporary builder.
You chose your builder for some reason or reasons,, you should have done all your research about him long before ordering the gun.
(I'm sure you did)
There is no reason to start doubting him now.

You heard "proofing" is about a double charge under a double ball,,
Did you also hear that "proofing" a barrel in a manner like that can actually cause the initial damage that can lead to failure?

Unless you plan an Africa large game hunt just shoot it as is. You can safely go to 110-120grns under a single projectile and cause no more then damage to your shoulder from the large recoil.

 

[pinemarten]

Thanks guys for the feed back and recommendations...

I just got back from roving in the hemlocks with my flintlock. Put my snowshoes on and took off with the whole outfit (deerskin jacket, shooting bag, horn, some red willow/perique tobacco mix for a smoke, and my loading block full of 8 patched balls). This time I left my loading rod in the cabin and decided to use only short starter and wood rod. I loaded the first shot with 50 gr and got one of the patched balls down with some effort using the starting rod (pounding the wood ball hard with a lot of effort and palm bruising). I loaded pan, then snowshoed off through the woods and along the old beaver dam. Every so often I would pick a target and shoot. It was a ton of fun for sure! I was real happy with how I hit fairly close to my mark. (I haven't worked up the grains or worked up a load, adjusted front blade, etc so just held the blade a bit high to compensate). I did this for an hour or so and eventually stopped, hung the horn on a hemlock, set the rifle against the tree, and had a pipe while I contemplated my good fortune and felt the joy to be out roving.
Some observations and lessons learned: Number one, when I got back home and looked at the bag of balls I had loaded the block from, they were .495....no wonder I was breaking my hand to start the dang things! I will be sure I grab the .490s next time and it almost makes me want to go right back out and enjoy loading the smaller balls now ('cept I'm enjoying sitting by this fireplace an chatting with all you sourdoughs).
Number two, the pillow ticking seemed to pull apart all around the ball. I had good looking patches when I shot .490 balls last weekend with no holes. I couldn't figure it out at first but then realized the patches were getting stretched during the difficult forcing of the ball into the muzzle. (the ticking was from walmart and is the blue and white stripped plus is washed, lube is bear grease). As I mentioned in another post, all my use of the gun is ultimately geared toward hunting deer and I am trying to use the type of patch, ball, lube, etc etc that I will eventually use for hunting.
Number three, the wood rod did the trick just fine once the starter had the ball down the barrel. I was able to push it with short careful strokes and did see any significant risk of breaking the rod. I am very very happy about that!
Number four, even with snow flakes sometimes settling in with the powder as I filled the pan, the gun went off nicely each time.
Number five, I made sure I didn't set anything down so that I could learn to load standing. This was a bit awkward but I started getting a system down.
Number six, as I've said before, I am worried about developing a flinch. I did have trouble with blinking at the flash. This concerned me, though I do not believe I was flinching the gun and tried to make sure I immediately regained the sight picture for follow through. I did worry about the blinking so spent some time just loading the pan and firing that off for about 8 times to get used to it. I just put my eyes on the lock and watched it poof/flash and this did not cause a blink. Going back to take my last shot for the afternoon seemed somewhat better after that.
I stuck the wood rod in my leather boot on the right side of my body to keep it from going into the snow (as it did during my first 2 loads!!). I used both a ffffg prime from my little priming horn and fffg straight from the horn other times to compare and didn't see any real difference (but then, I m a greenhorn here). Swabbed with a spit patch and one dry after every 2 shots.

Ok, thanks for sitting with me by the fireside here, any suggestions or recommendations on how to do things better I'm all ears for!

Daniel

 

[Gene L]

I don't think there's any need to prove a modern blackpowder firearm. In Europe, they have Proving Houses and all firearms (in England, for example) have to be proved every so often. English shotguns, modern ones, have to be proved every so often, but they're light-weight guns and get stretched, if what I read is true.

A proof load for a rifle is a very heavy load far outside any normal use. America doesn't have a government proof house, unlike Europe, where I think the houses are a government racket. I don't know if Italian made BP rifles for the American market are proved since we don't require it over here.

 

[Khufu]

I don't know if Italian made BP rifles for the American market are proved since we don't require it over here.

every Italian Gun I have seen has a "PN" stampped on it, from all makers.

 

[pwbsmokey]

I'm glad that you mentioned about proofing possibly causing damage. I have never had a reason to proof a barrel, but I always figured loading up to what I figured my max load would be or maybe 10% to 20% more would be more than enough. I would think double loads with double projectiles would be considered "destructive testing". I would be afraid to shoot a barrel after having gone through that. There is no telling what kind of unseen damage was done. I would guess that manufacturers might pick a random barrel out of a lot or a run of barrels to test for quality control, but not test every barrel that way.

 

[nchawkeye]

I wouldn't proof a newly made rifle...Back in the '70s and '80s when we were drilling and making our own touchhole liners and such we were proofing them then...

 

[Zonie]

If your gun was made after 1870, do NOT proof it.

It is unnecessary and it could cause damage in what is a perfectly safe barrel.

 

[Vaino]

My "proofing" is actually functional shooting w/ a hefty hunting load....this is done just before the final finish is applied.....Fred

 

[Billnpatti]

No proofing needed on modern made barrels. Any necessary proofing is done before the barrel gets to you. You are good to go so just go out there and enjoy that new rifle. It sounds as if that is exactly what you are doing. Just as you have found so far, running into little problems and solving them is all part of shooting a muzzleloading rifle.

I wish I was there to go with you on one of your excursions. Sounds like you had plenty of fun. As the Ausies say "Good on ya, mate." :thumbsup:

 

[Nemovir]

:surrender: Get a copy of DIXIE catalog and in the rear it tells one how to proof a black powder :thumbsup:

That the main reason I stayed away from black powder for so long. Why would I want buy one of their gun if I had proof it. Beside, I was too lazy to find a used tire. :youcrazy:

 

[Dean2]

:surrender: Get a copy of DIXIE catalog and in the rear it tells one how to proof a black powder :thumbsup:

Yep, and what they publish is pure bull manure. I would never buy a gun from anyone stupid enough to recommend that proofing procedure. Even in European proof houses, rarely do guns fail proof due to catastrophic failure, they fail due to pre and post measuring revealing unacceptable expansion or minute cracking found with magnafluxing (Used by CIP approved Proof Houses)

Unless you can accurately measure to .00005 and have the gear to find minute cracking all proof loads are likely to do is start a defect that will show up a bunch later.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Dixie also made lofty claims that they took a section of barrel, filled with powder and installed breech plugs in both ends. then lit it with a fuse and all the gas came out the tiny vent without blowing up.

Sure!, it may be possible But it is a poor analogy giving false notions IMO.

 

[Donny]

In the olde days, specifically, they were not proofing the bbl, they were proofing the welds.