Real Black Powder

[Dillon W.]

Guys I probably should have asked this a long time ago, and please forgive my ignorance. I’m just a youngin of 33 years of age lol. I’ve always shot pyrodex, ever since my first muzzleloader. Real BP has never been available in these parts from any of my recollections. It used to be I’m told. But I have to ask, what is the point of Pryodex and other substitutes? I’ve heard many times pyrodex IS more corrosive. So surely substitutes weren’t for corrosion resistance purposes. I just don’t understand what the drive was to develop a BP substitute. I plan on ordering the real stuff soon. I wanna know what it’s like to use it pretty bad

 

[leadhoarder]

Easier to ship, transport, and store while being within the law.

 

[TreeMan]

Black powder is federally classified as an explosive. Pyrodex is classified as a propellant. Explosives require much more red tape/hazmat fees to sell and transport along with insurance and storage requirements. I haven’t shot pyrodex since I learned better many decades ago. I shoot mostly flintlocks but in percussion Guns you’ll notice faster ignition (most of the time), less misfires and less worry about pyrodex corrosion. Cleanup is a bit easier. Pyrodex is a flat out no-go in a flintlock but in a percussion gun you will see improvement in those areas. Some will argue pyrodex is just as good and that is probably true if your particular rifle has a good flash channel, good nipple, good caps, and no fouling. Black powder ignites much easier so if any of those factors are not perfect it’ll usually always go BOOM!

 

[Throwdown58]

You can get real bp from powderinc.com in bulk of at least five pounds, and they are shipping, albeit behind right now. You pay one hazmat fee, and they are fully licensed. BP is much more corrosive than Pyrodex, and only stinks half as bad, not unpleasantly so. If you clean your guns with soapy water, dry them completely and oil right away, you won't have any long term problems caused by the corrosive effects. But go back and check them just in case, in and around the lock especially. BP keeps forever, even in sheds and garages with humidity. So the investment is worthwhile.

 

[Hawken]

Pyrodex and similar, ersatz substitute propellants can be found right on the shelf. Blackpowder cannot be displayed that way any longer, it must be stored by federal regulation in a separate, outside location or in a powder magazine or somesuch. Probably costs more for insurance, I dunno.

 

[deermanok]

Nothing wrong with using pyrodex if that's all you can get. I'd recommend Graf&sons to order black powder from. Their minimum order is 4 pounds. I think the hazmat fee is $ 12.50 and shipping is about the same if I remember correctly.
You can order a pound or two of different brands to try.
I like Old Ensyford and Swiss. I think they're pretty comparable but the Swiss is way more expensive.

 

[mooman76]

Just a guess because Pyrodex was developed before the BP restrictions got as strict as they are now, my guess would be when they developed Pyrodex, it just didn't quite turn out as good as they hoped. But they put all that money into developing it, so they marketed it anyway. Back then they marketed it as being less corrosive than real BP but most of us know know that is not the case.

 

[Throwdown58]

Yea but Triple Se7en is much less corrosive, and fires fine with a percussion cap. Right now hard to find in 3F but 2F works fine in revolvers. Pyrodex is nasty smelly stuff. I shot it sass for many years when I was escairt of real BP. I think Triple Se7en gives you the most velocity without compromising accuracy at all, and without the shot to shot crud, and I have not seen the need to be as freakish about cleaning immediately.

 

[Dillon W.]

Yea but Triple Se7en is much less corrosive, and fires fine with a percussion cap. Right now hard to find in 3F but 2F works fine in revolvers. Pyrodex is nasty smelly stuff. I shot it sass for many years when I was escairt of real BP. I think Triple Se7en gives you the most velocity without compromising accuracy at all, and without the shot to shot crud, and I have not seen the need to be as freakish about cleaning immediately.

Just out of curiosity, what does triple 7 smell like?

 

[Throwdown58]

It doesn't have that acrid smell that Pyrodex has. I would say it's not even as acrid as BP.

 

[Booneliane]

I started with pyrodex 20 years ago. Got on to the real stuff about 19.5 years ago and haven’t looked back.

Still have a bit left of my first, and last pound.

Even in a percussion gun I had WAY less issues with the real stuff. I’ve never had a “hang fire” in a percussion gun with real black powder. Had quite a few with pyrodex.

The real stuff cleans up oh so much easier too.

 

[Dashing Leper]

Pyrodex has a higher ignition point than classic black. Makes it safer to sell off store shelves, but also means it can be harder to ignite.

Now, in a revolver where the cap fires straight into the chamber, you're going to have no problem setting off Pyrodex in most guns.

It's a side-firer like an old-fashioned caplock or flintlock where the flash may not stay hot enough in order to set off Pyrodex.

 

[gerryherd]

Pyrodex started (early 80s?) touted as a non-corrosive substitute that gave 10 percent more shots per pound. Shoot all day, clean next week. Inventor Dan Pawlak was killed in a pyrodex factory explosion and they changed the formula for safety’s sake and it became corrosive. The higher ignition temps of Pyrodex, Triple 7, etc, makes flintlock use problematic, unless you dribble a few grains of black powder down the muzzle, then a main charge of your bp substitute of choice, prime the pan with 4F, and shoot, but that extra step is kind of a pain. Triple 7 , I hear, cleans up nice with water.

 

[mooman76]

Pyrodex was around in the 70s. I know because I got my first ML in the 70s and was told about the Pyrodex plant blowing up. Thanks for the update on the corrosiveness.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Pyrodex has always been marketed as not generating the fouling that is generated by black powder. Because of the negligible amount of fouling you could get more shots off without wiping the bore between shots and accuracy would remain high with the first shot performing the same as the following shots. The myth was that because of the small amount of fouling one did not not have to clean the firearm as rigorously as when using black powder. The truth is that the fouling was there, but not in great quantities and the fouling generated from the burning of the perchlorates was far more corrosive than the fouling for black powder. Many a firearm was ruined due to that belief. Also the ignition temperature of Pyrodex (and other substitutes for black powder) was much higher than the ignition temperature of black powder making substitutes for black powder unsuitable for use in flintlocks. Sure procedures were developed for duplex loads using black powder to ignite the substitute powders making shooting flintlock firearms more complex and difficult.

I bought some of the first batches of Pyrodex and used it in my Navy Arms Reb Revolver. I experienced hang fires and it simply wasn't a satisfactory experience. I was helping a shooter with his side by side side shotgun. He was experiencing a large number of hangfires. He admitted he was using Pyrodex. The hang fires ended when he switched to black powder.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I am shooting Triple 7 in my percussion rifle and really like it. Shoots well, and very easy clean up with water. Give it a try if you have not already.

 

[jfaldo]

Dillon W ironically Powder Inc. is located in Arkansas same as you.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Just out of curiosity, what does triple 7 smell like?

Smells better than me some days.

 

[dave951]

If at all possible, I'd say avoid Pyrodex. The issue with corrosive properties is quite real as is the problem with ignition. You "can" get by with it but be warned to clean far more rigorously than you ever would with real black powder.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I was brought up and bred on real BP and out of curiosity I bought a pound of Pyrodex way back in the 80's. A couple of shots was enough to determine by felt recoil that it had less power than the real stuff. I have been using Goex and now Swiss ever since. I still have that partial can of Pyrodex on the shelf.