Rem Oil or Bore Butter

[token tory]

Having followed this thread here's my 2c worth.

Based on what I was told I use no petroleum-based products at all, thus avoiding the tarry residue that gets so much press. Veggie based oil is all I use. It seems to me that its not oil that's the problem, but petroleum-based oil.

Traditions makes no claim to anything other than lowering fouling for their product. TC claims all that & rustproofing too. Based on that I use oil for rust prevention & bore butter in one form or another to reduce fouling. Mostly in pre-soaked wads when firing, but I do swab the bore & chambers VERY LIGHTLY immediately before use.

So far as my bore is easy to clean (I don't even seem to need a brush) & nothing has rusted I'm sticking with what seems to work for me.

Now I'm far from being a crusty experienced BP shooter but, I can't honestly see what all the fuss is about. :idunno:

 

[hanshi]

I've never used anything except modern gun oils for rust protection. My barrels, including one 45 years old, are still clean, pristine and bright. If protecting with petro based oils left a tarry residue no one ever told my barrels about it. I've used well over half a dozen types/brands including 3 in 1 oil and have had excellent results with them all-exception being WD40. I still use WD40 I just don't trust it as a rust preventative.

Bore butter is costly and is nothing more than Crisco that smells good. Crisco is cheap and I've used it for patch lube but NEVER for rust protection.

Before shooting I run a few patches down the bore and never have any problem with gun oils leaving residue. That's all there is to it.

 

[BullRunBear]

Mykael,

How much do you dilute the Balistol for lubing patches?

Jeff

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

As long as you use oil for rust protection, you'll be fine! I do the same! I use pre-lubed pillow-ticking patches with bore butter soaked into them. It cuts-down on the cake build-up and keeps the fouling soft, which is easily removed with a spit patch.

If what you're doing now works (and it sounds to me like it works well) then keep on doin' it!

Certain claims some manufacturers make aren't written on left-over scrolls from the dead sea! They're just marketing :bull: .

It's good that you've discovered the right path my son, and may you find the Holy Grail during target practice :haha:

Dave

 

[mykeal]

Mykael,

How much do you dilute the Balistol for lubing patches?

Jeff

Depends on the gun.

My .54 GPR flint likes 6:1 water:Ballistol, but 7:1 is pretty close; it might even be better but I just shot better on that particular test. OTOH, my .54 GPR caplock likes the 7:1 much better than 6:1. All my T/C's prefer 5:1, regardless of model (Hawken, New Englander, WMC) or caliber, but 6:1 will work pretty well too.

I used Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System to get the ratio; best $15 product in the entire bp industry, hands down.

 

[roundball]

Yes, petroleum based products promote fouling with BP.
NL1000 (bore butter) has been my main bore lube for years and the bores of my muzzleloaders are still in factory mirror new condition today.

There is a learning curve with a bore butter type lube that has caused some grief for some people...but bottom line, if a bore is 100% cleaned, and 100% dried, then 100% coated with something to insulate the metal from the air which contains moisture, almost anything can be used and will prevent rust...Natural Lube 1000, Crisco (unsalted), Go-Jo hand cleaner, Mink oil, etc, etc.

The biggest drawback to using a thick bore butter type lube is that because it's not a liquid, it does not 'run' or 'migrate' around when its put into a bore...basically it remains wherever it is placed so it's not a forgiving lube in that sense...and that's the Achilles heel that users have to know about and that puts a premium on cleaning & drying.

1) If a bore is not 100% cleaned of every trace of fouling, when bore butter is placed "over the top' of it", corrosion can begin underneath that lube;
2) If a bore is not 100% dried of every trace of moisture, when bore butter is placed "over the top of it", rust can begin underneath that lube;

An insurance step I take after cleaning & drying is to run a sloppy wet / dripping wet WD40 patch up and down bore several times to ensure any moisture has been driven off the metal, then dry patch that out. If steps 1 & 2 are completed 100% then all that remains is to get 100% of the bore surfaces coated with something to protect them.

Unfortunately, commercial off the shelf pre-lubed bore butter patches do not contain enough lube to simply run a patch down and back up and be done with it like we get away with when we use liquid petroleum type oil in our center fires. So I add extra lube to lubing patches and heavily plaster the bore walls a couple different times to really ensure every square inch of surface is well coated...before loading the next trip out, I dry patch the bore to pull out any possible excess.

I’ve seen a number of well intended lube tests and while interesting, they don’t relate to real life...ie: I’ll never leave a muzzleloader out on a picnic table in the elements unprotected for two weeks so they really don’t matter to me...my experiences above are all based on the normal care of muzzleloaders by cleaning, drying, lubing, and keeping them in their cases in the house...bore butter works fine, just have to understand it and use it accordingly.

 

[BullRunBear]

Mykael,

How much do you dilute the Balistol for lubing patches?

Jeff

Depends on the gun.

My .54 GPR flint likes 6:1 water:Ballistol, but 7:1 is pretty close; it might even be better but I just shot better on that particular test. OTOH, my .54 GPR caplock likes the 7:1 much better than 6:1. All my T/C's prefer 5:1, regardless of model (Hawken, New Englander, WMC) or caliber, but 6:1 will work pretty well too.

I used Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System to get the ratio; best $15 product in the entire bp industry, hands down.

Mykeal,

Many thanks for the link. Since my usual shooting is, shall we say, consistency-challenged, Shoultz's system can only help. And I have plenty of Balistol on hand.

Jeff

 

[nchawkeye]

Funny thing is that before BoreButter I had never heard that oil was bad for muzzleloaders...I use a good gun oil and wipe it out before shooting...Never had a problem with the tar that some complain about...

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Zonie - Please be gentle with my old brain's confusion. Actually, I think it comes mostly from the word "oil". Is Barricade petroleum based or not? Actually, while we're at it, is Ballistol as well?

 

[tg]

I have used regular gun oil for bore protection for years as well as natural lubes and if cleaned well before loading there will be no problems using petro oils as bore protection.the natural lube/seasonsing thing is a hold over from the days of iron barrels.

 

[jtmattison]

Does the rem oil I use after cleaning my gun create bad reactions with the blackpowder?

Absolutely not!

I have used Rem-oil on my BP rifles and pistols exclusively for many years and I have NEVER had even the slightest hint of rust.

HD

 

[Zonie]

Zonie - Please be gentle with my old brain's confusion. Actually, I think it comes mostly from the word "oil". Is Barricade petroleum based or not? Actually, while we're at it, is Ballistol as well?

On the side of a can of Barricade it says,
"CONTAINS PETROLEUM DISTILLATES", so I guess it is.

My experience with it is that it is a very thin oil that displaces water and dries to an almost unmeasurable thinness.

Because it dries and is not in a fluid form it seems to have no effect on the development of hard fouling when black powder is fired in a barrel that was treated with it.

As I mentioned before, it is an excellent rust preventative.

Ballistol's bottle says, "Contains mineral oil."

Mineral oil, according to Wikipedia: "Mineral oil or liquid petroleum is a by-product in the distillation of petroleum to produce gasoline and other petroleum based products from crude oil..."

Ballistol also has some form of emulsifying ingredient that makes it dissoluble in water, which explains how some can mix it with water to make their patch lube.

It is supposed to prevent rust however I've had some very different experiences with it when I used it straight from the bottle in my guns for this purpose.

Ballistol does not seem to dry to the same kind of thin layer that Barricade does and remains moist so if I were to suggest something to those who like it and use it straight from the bottle they should use a denatured alcohol wipe in the bore prior to loading their black powder.

I'll admit I'm guessing but, I wouldn't use Ballistol diluted in water in my just cleaned bore to protect it. After all, putting water, even when mixed with some form of detergent and oil directly on bare steel bore seems like it would be asking for rust to form.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Thanks very much for your comprehensive answer. I really appreciate it.

 

[Gotspark]

Mykael,

How much do you dilute the Balistol for lubing patches?

Jeff

Depends on the gun.

My .54 GPR flint likes 6:1 water:Ballistol, but 7:1 is pretty close; it might even be better but I just shot better on that particular test. OTOH, my .54 GPR caplock likes the 7:1 much better than 6:1. All my T/C's prefer 5:1, regardless of model (Hawken, New Englander, WMC) or caliber, but 6:1 will work pretty well too.

I used Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System to get the ratio; best $15 product in the entire bp industry, hands down.

Agreed, I'm just starting to gather what I need to figure out patches for my rifle.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Zonie - You've answered some questions I had regarding this issue in the past, but here's a couple more. (1)what , if any, lub do you use when shooting? (2)Even if you plan on shooting that same gun in a week or even the next day do you still coat the bore with Barricade? Here's a cheater third question: Does Barricade have the lowest petroleum based content that other products hyped for this job?

 

[HatchetJaque]

Make that $20 product, I just ordered mine yesterday...

 

[Zonie]

Mark
In years past, I've mainly used TC's Wonderlube 1000 Bore Butter.
I would melt down a bit of this stuff a day or two ahead of when I planned on going shooting and then dropped my patches into it. Using my fingers I then squeezed out the excess and stored the lubed patches in a plastic bag.
For Minie' Balls, I grease the grooves directly from the tube just before loading.

Going Way Back, I once used "Spit Patch" but that stuff was nasty which is probably why it's out of business. No great loss.

Anyway, I switched to Stumpkillers Moose Juice for my patched roundballs, lubing them just before loading. Using this damp lube method, I seldom have to wipe the bore between shots because the wetness of the patch wipes the bore on the way down. The fouling that falls off of the bore as the damp patch goes down the bore falls on top of the powder charge so it cannot block a false breech, side drum or vent hole.

For Minie's I still use the TC Bore Butter.

It doesn't matter when I plan to shoot my gun after cleaning, I always protect my bore with Barricade right after I clean.
The reasons are twofold. First, rust can and will form in less than 10 minutes and once started it only gets worse. The Barricade prevents this.
Second, Barricade (and several other penetrating oils) is a water displacing oil that gets into the tiny areas where dampness may be hiding.
Third, although I may plan on shooting the same gun a day or two down the road that doesn't always work out and the gun may go for weeks without attention.

In my opinion, lubing all of a guns steel parts is part of cleaning it.

As for the "lowest petroleum based product", I don't know that it is.
You will notice that I never said that it was the lowest petroleum based product. What I said, in so many words, is that it is volatile so it evaporates quickly leaving a barrier against the air and humidity that may cause rust.

Hope this answers your questions.

 

[BGRooster1]

I have read that it is not just because a product is a petroleum product,but a petroleum product with or without hydrocarbons.Don't know if it is true.Just read it somewhere recently.I think an old Black Powder Annual.It stated that is why some petroleum products work and some cause problems.

 

[MikeChapin]

Mark
...
Going Way Back, I once used "Spit Patch" but that stuff was nasty which is probably why it's out of business. No great loss.

...

A couple of years ago I was cleaning out some shelves I ran across a couple of bottles of this stuff. I have used real spit for forever so I must have won it somewhere and just stuck it on the shelf. I seem to remember using some back when I started and you are right it was nasty stuff.

 

[MikeChapin]

I have read that it is not just because a product is a petroleum product,but a petroleum product with or without hydrocarbons.Don't know if it is true.Just read it somewhere recently.I think an old Black Powder Annual.It stated that is why some petroleum products work and some cause problems.

Almost all of them work but many oils need to be cleaned out of the barrel before you shoot. Their combustion products leave a lot of crud in the barrel. I use Ballistol for preservation. I don't need to clean it out of the barrel before I shoot and it seems to do a good job of protecting the barrel.