Roof find but what is it?

[Giantman]

Hi all,

New to the forum as a result of recently acquiring this flitlock. A friend found it up in his father's attic and gave it to me because of my interest in firearms. While I am into black poweder revolvers I am a complete novice when it comes to flintlock muskets and seek the wisdom of the forum to help me identify this piece.

From my initial observations it appears to be a reproduction, possibly of Spanish origins. The nickel plating and use of metric screws would imply it is not period. It seems very well made with timed screws and good fitting of metal to wood.

Now some details. The bore measures out at approximately .66" (16 gauge?) while the barrel length is 33". It features no makers or proof marks that I could find, even after disassembly, but does have the letters SAR stamped into the side plate as well the letters GR and picture of a crown (reign of king George?). The only other marking I could find was the number 31 on various pieces which I suppose is for parts matching during production.

Any help you could offer will be met with much appreciation.

Simon.

A picture is worth a thousand words (click for larger versions):

 

[JV Puleo]

You're certainly right that it isn't an original gun. This is going to sound really bizare but I think its made with a lock, sidplate and trigger guard that was part of one of the Japanese-made "Tower" pistols that were sold in the late 60s and the 70s. That said, there are plenty of folks on this forum that know far more about reproduction guns than I do so I'm curious as to what they'll suggest. The "patchbox" is really odd...as if someone made the gun from a picture in a book and didn't really understand what a patchbox was.

 

[arquebus]

I have the feeling it was made as a decorator rather than a fireable gun. Can you see if there is a touch hole from the pan to the barrel?

 

[fluggies4]

I just looked through all my old copies of Guns & Ammo Annuals, back to 1968, and the first one that this gun is shown in is from 1974. The one listed is a kit: "Arms International Minuteman Muzzle-Loader Rifle Kit". Price is $69.00 for the kit, and $98.00 finished. The barrel is .69 caliber, and has a two-piece stock. A friend of mine had one of these many years ago, and we determined that the barrel was also two piece, joined where the octagon meets the round. Although he did fire it a few times, I would say that it is best suited as a wall hanger.

 

[Giantman]

Thanks for the quick replies fellas. To answer a couple questions, the patch box is not a box at all but mearly a brass decorative item and yes it does have a flash hole.

Powderburner, is there any chance that you could scan that page and post it here or e-mail it to me? That sounds very interesting, thank you.

Out of interest I have posted some pics below of a pistol version of this flintlock that I found on Gunbroker a while back. The ownder new very little about it also but these pics show better detail. As you can see by comparison they are quite similar (apart from the obvious).

 

[paulvallandigham]

The pistol is a reproduction. Depending on who made it , and when the price was pretty low. Some don't have full round barrels the entire length, and are only wall hangers. My dad bought a Tower pistol at Kleins, in Chicago, back in 1959 or 1960 for about $28.00 ! It was .62 caliber, no sights, smoothbore, and the frizzen was not hardened or tempered. He sent it off to Dixie to get it case hardened, and order a scissors mold from Dixie for $5.00. We got it shooting and finally took it to Friendship in 1961 or '62, where my brother fired the beast off hand at the 25 yard range. He actually hit the paper a couple of times.

Later versions were made in Japan, and were .69 caliber( 14 gauge) but just as poorly made. Trigger pulls were in the 20 lb range, which can be corrected with files and stones. The flint shown the in the gun pictured it too short for that lock. If you look at the bottom of the barrel ( Yes, you have to remove the barrel from the stock to see this) you should see some proof marks or other indictions of where the gun was made.

 

[MikeChapin]

That pistol looks identical to a Dixie Tower Pistol I picked up for about $30 many years ago. The only difference is that it has TOWER stamped where SAR is stamped. It was a round barreled .69 smooth bore. The springs were mushy but I got it to spark semi-reliably. I used to use it with a shot load to hunt snakes.

 

[flintlockmdj]

During the Rev War Bicentenial (also known as the buy-centenial) everyone and his brother was making anything that would make a buck on the bicentenial theme. You are now the (proud?) owner of one of these pieces. The SAR on the lockplate translate into WALLHANGER ONLY. :rotf:

 

[kenneth strickland]

 

[spudnut]

Later versions were made in Japan, and were .69 caliber( 14 gauge) but just as poorly made. Trigger pulls were in the 20 lb range, which can be corrected with files and stones.

I bought one of these when Jas. Townsend was "Colonial Lanterns" I got it for 32 dollars,Trigger pulls easy and it has always sparked good.Ive fiddled with gettin rid of it from time to time but always glad I did'nt.I can't see the pics from this computer but if it's a two piece barrel I would hang it on a wall(or give it the tire test)

 

[threepdr]

I used to have one too. It was clunky and not a copy of any original gun. But it would go "bang" every time I pulled the trigger. I shot patched .64 caliber balls out of it and it is was as accrate as any other smoothbore I've fired.

I traded it for an original Model 1903A3 rifle.

 

[bwhoffman]

it looks like the imported tower pistol, both the rifle and pistol pictured above.
If it were me.....
I would not shoot them without first having the breech looked at.
I have seen these with the breech plugs soft soldered or brazed into plae. Not a good idea to shoot if this is the setup.
I sold mine on the bay, in 2 seperate sales, noted as a wall hanger/not a shooter, and the 2 sales totaled 162 bucks, go figure!

Be safe.

 

[sequoia]

A neighbor gave me one of those one time. The Ramrod was threaded into the stock. It was obviously not intended to be fired. I gave it to another friend for a wall hanger. The good part was that the first neighbor also gave me a T/C Patriot that someone had given him!

 

[Todd Rickard]

It looks like the ramrod is too short to load the rifle as well.