Round Ball accuracy??

[Regulis7]

What kind of accuracy do you guys get with a PRB at 100 yards in a 1:48 twist rifle?

My TC New Englander shoots superb groups at 25 and 50 yards, good enough to hit a squirrel offhand to be exact. The 75 yard groups are pretty decent, a sitting rabbit would be dinner here provided I had a resting shot.

At 100 yards the groups are so bad that I dont think I could put the ball in the vitals of a deer with a perfect broadside shot, even if the rifle were bolted to a bench!!!

I had this exact same problem with a CVA Bobcat, which is the reason I sold it and got the New Englander in the first place.

Am I expecting too much from a PRB load in a 1:48 twist rifle or just havent found the correct ball-patch-charge combo for shooting the 100 yard distance?

Regulis7

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Regulis,
I shoot a flinter, and it is a Golden Age barrel (By Douglas) 54cal-->1 in 48" and 44" long. I have benched this rifle and fired a 5 shot 4-3/8" in group. I still have the target and that was many years ago. I am by know means an expert, and sure you will hear from some boys that do better than I. Make sure you are not blowing or tearing patches,your using good consistant weight/size RBs, and don't get too heavy on the powder. (My opinion for starters)
The other thing you could do would be to get a flinter and that will tighten your group (Just kidding) :haha:
Keep us posted
Flintlocks Forever
Lar :thumbsup:

 

[jaybeach]

I can put shots all day long into a 6" circle at 100 yds with my .50 Hawken with 1-48 twist. You definitely need to play around with ball size and patch thickness (and maybe lube) to get more consistent groups than what you're getting.
ps - I use 90 gr RS with a heavy linen patch of unknown thickness.
:thumbsup:

 

[twsteven]

This group was shot at 100 yards with a .40 calibre barrel with 48 inch twist. Shot from a bench rest and using vernier tang peep sights. Just wish I could do it again.

 

[Regulis7]

10 Thumbs,

Now your really rubbing it in!!!! Nice shooting.

Regulis7

 

[cayugad]

Regulis7 what you might want to do is at the 100 yard line shoot your best five shot group. Be sure and swab with an alcohol patch and then a dry one between shots. If you have said to yourself that his was the best I could do, then it is time to let someone else who you respect their shooting abilty, try the rifle. Compare the groups.

If they shoot the same kind of group as you did, then it is time to play with the patch thickness, try different lubes, even different brand ball.

Also try some maxiball out of that rifle. I have a friend with one of them that shoots excellent groups with 70 grains of Pyrodex and a maxiball. Get a pack of powerbelts and try them too. At least work up a hunting load and then shoot the roundball for plinkers if the rifle does like conicals better.

good luck with the rifle.

 

[roundball]

What kind of accuracy do you guys get with a PRB at 100 yards in a 1:48 twist rifle?

My TC New Englander shoots superb groups at 25 and 50 yards, good enough to hit a squirrel offhand to be exact. The 75 yard groups are pretty decent, a sitting rabbit would be dinner here provided I had a resting shot.

At 100 yards the groups are so bad that I dont think I could put the ball in the vitals of a deer with a perfect broadside shot, even if the rifle were bolted to a bench!!!

I had this exact same problem with a CVA Bobcat, which is the reason I sold it and got the New Englander in the first place.

Am I expecting too much from a PRB load in a 1:48 twist rifle or just havent found the correct ball-patch-charge combo for shooting the 100 yard distance?

Regulis7

Something simple to try is to use some Oxyoke prelubed wonderwads over the powder first, then seat the PRB down on that. Wonderwads always tighten groups for me...they act as a firewall to protect the patch and make a better seal...which results in better shot to shot consistency tightening group size...the wads improved seal also increases velocity for the same powder charge, and they add more lube into the barrel.

I actually use the next larger caliber size wads...ie: .54cal wads in a .50cal rifle and so on...the pressure squeezes the extra material out into the grooves themselves for an even better seal...and when you pick them up off the ground, you can see the land/groove marks around the edges...patches could be reused off the ground they're still that perfect looking. There's not much difference between my TC 1:48" and 1:66" barrels using the same full power hunting loads of 90grns Goex FFFg, wonderwad, .018" pillow ticking, and Hornady .490's.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I've shot and worked up loads for quite a few .50cal. rifles with twists of 1-48 up to 1-72 and several between. It seems to me that all can be accurate but the faster twists are more finnicky. A 1-72 may shoot just fine with 40 grains or 140 grains but the faster 1-48 twist often has just one load that shoots well and all else is manure. I also think the fast twist does best with lighter loads, and that is OK because you can shoot a conical with 100 gr. for big game or a patched ball with 30-40 grains for small game and plinking. If you are determined to hunt big stuff with patched ball then a 1-72 barrel is likely to be more satisfactory. Roundball barrels usually have deeper grooves than barrels ment for conical or as "combination" barrels such as your T/C and that may be as much a factor as twist. :imo:

 

[2172]

shot a 6" group, offhand, from my ancient CVA Mountain rifle last Saturday. I say "ancient" 'cause it was the first kit I ever put together, back in the early '70's..I looked at the bbl writing recently...says ,"made in America" and has no warning about "black powder only"...must be ancient..Hank

 

[alisal]

Roundball-If using conical would I still use oversize wad?

 

[roundball]

Roundball-If using conical would I still use oversize wad?

I do...I use overpowder wads for all deer hunting loads...the two conicals I've used them with have been .45cal TC maxi-hunters, and .45cal Hornady Great Plains bullets.

 

[eph289]

What kind of accuracy do you guys get with a PRB at 100 yards in a 1:48 twist rifle?

My TC New Englander shoots superb groups at 25 and 50 yards, good enough to hit a squirrel offhand to be exact. The 75 yard groups are pretty decent, a sitting rabbit would be dinner here provided I had a resting shot.

At 100 yards the groups are so bad that I dont think I could put the ball in the vitals of a deer with a perfect broadside shot, even if the rifle were bolted to a bench!!!

I had this exact same problem with a CVA Bobcat, which is the reason I sold it and got the New Englander in the first place.

Am I expecting too much from a PRB load in a 1:48 twist rifle or just havent found the correct ball-patch-charge combo for shooting the 100 yard distance?

Regulis7

I don't have an anwser.I got a question. If the shot is grouping well at 25,50and75 yd. whats going wrong in the next 25 yd. It seems that if the group is bad @100 yd.it should be proportionaly bad at 25,50 and 75 yd.How am I wrong.

 

[Rat]

I agree, if you can kill the rabbit everytime at 75 yards, I would think that some kind of sighting error is coming into play at 100 yards.

It would be a very strange, very unusual situation for a rifle to do that on it's own...and if this is the second rifle that does this...!!!

Indeed, get another person, who is a good shot, and is known to shoot good groups at 100, to shoot your rifle and see if results are the same. No offense, but with the information as it is, it does not look like the rifle is the problem.

:sorry:

The type of mark you shoot at, at 100 yards or beyond will have a great effect on accuracy. Round, black bull's-eyes are not good marks, ESPECIALLY if you are holding on the center of the bull. A large, black triangle is better, point down, flat side up, shoot for the bottom "point", place the point on top of your front sight.

Shooting for the bottom edge of a white paper plate is also superior to shooting at the center of a round black target.

Rat

 

[Regulis7]

I will be heading back to the range one day this week, weather permitting, and will pay really close attention to my sight alignment. I think the all black adjustable rear, black post & bead front may be contributing to my poor 100 yard accuracy.

Under good light conditions I have no problem getting the black bead to settle in the black v notch and the closer the target the easier the alignment is. When the lighting condition changes and the distance increases I found that its harder for me to get the black bead settled into the black notch. At 100 yards just a small change in bead alignment could change the point of impact a foot or more.

Guess I have been paying more attention to charges, patches and lubes than I have in getting a consistant sight alignment with the target.

Regulis7

 

[blackpowder shooter]

agree with all the above, do you clean after every shot ?

 

[roundball]

I will be heading back to the range one day this week, weather permitting, and will pay really close attention to my sight alignment. I think the all black adjustable rear, black post & bead front may be contributing to my poor 100 yard accuracy.

Under good light conditions I have no problem getting the black bead to settle in the black v notch and the closer the target the easier the alignment is. When the lighting condition changes and the distance increases I found that its harder for me to get the black bead settled into the black notch. At 100 yards just a small change in bead alignment could change the point of impact a foot or more.

Guess I have been paying more attention to charges, patches and lubes than I have in getting a consistant sight alignment with the target.

Regulis7

Something you might want to try which can help with precision sighting is to put a very small dab of white model airplane paint on the front bead.

Break a toothpick in half or something like that to dab it on and let it dry over night...shows a good strong contrast.

I liked it so much that I've removed all my front sights, dished out the face of them with a small drill bit, put the paint inside that concave face, and reinstall the sights.

(with the paint inside the dished out face, it doesn't get rubbed off but for experimenting while sighting in, you can simply dab it on the surface of the bead)

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've got a N.Englander and my guess would be the sights aren't suiting you at 100 yards. T/C puts pistol sights on their rifles. Contender pistol, specifically. Perfect at 25 yards, fair at 50 yards, :imo: way too "coarse" at 100 yards. I "cheat" by shooting at diamond shape bullseyes so that the tip of the diamond will rest in the center of the front sight, helping me align them.

The front sight of my N.E. occludes about 10 or 12" at 100 yards. Hardly the best set-up for accuracy at that range. A target like a bunny at 75 yards focuses your eye and attention better than a 6" black circle. Try something besides a big round dot. Something with contrasting rings or squares within one another helps. Our good 'ol 3 x 5 card on a black background is a decent 100 yard target. They last me a long time 'cause I don't put much wear in the center.

Last weekend I was trying a 3 lb tomato paste can without label at 100 yards. Just as I got ready to shoot the sun came out and I went blind over the snow. I could see the sights much better, but the silver can reflecting the surrounding white snow just disappeared. The N.E. has a fairly short barrel, and trying to get the rear, front and target in focus simultaneously is difficult. The more light, the better (iris shrinks, depth of field increases). The easiest thing to change is the target. I've never bothered to change the sights on mine as they are ideal for my 40 to 50 yard woods shots on deer. If I hunted woodchucks at 150 yards regularly I would swap them out for something finer.

 

[roundball]

I've got a N.Englander and my guess would be the sights aren't suiting you at 100 yards. T/C puts pistol sights on their rifles. Contender pistol, specifically. Perfect at 25 yards, fair at 50 yards, :imo: way too "coarse" at 100 yards. I "cheat" by shooting at diamond shape bullseyes so that the tip of the diamond will rest in the center of the front sight, helping me align them.

The front sight of my N.E. occludes about 10 or 12" at 100 yards. Hardly the best set-up for accuracy at that range. A target like a bunny at 75 yards focuses your eye and attention better than a 6" black circle. Try something besides a big round dot. Something with contrasting rings or squares within one another helps. Our good 'ol 3 x 5 card on a black background is a decent 100 yard target. They last me a long time 'cause I don't put much wear in the center.

Last weekend I was trying a 3 lb tomato paste can without label at 100 yards. Just as I got ready to shoot the sun came out and I went blind over the snow. I could see the sights much better, but the silver can reflecting the surrounding white snow just disappeared. The N.E. has a fairly short barrel, and trying to get the rear, front and target in focus simultaneously is difficult. The more light, the better (iris shrinks, depth of field increases). The easiest thing to change is the target. I've never bothered to change the sights on mine as they are ideal for my 40 to 50 yard woods shots on deer. If I hunted woodchucks at 150 yards regularly I would swap them out for something finer.

And then they came out with the smaller size front bead sights...the early TC Hawkens had the larger bead and I've replaced several on older Hawkens I've bought...all TC offers now is the smaller size bead front sight and it's much better for precision work...the dab of white paint in the bead face let's me pick it up fine in the woods...

 

[Tahquamenon]

As mentioned give Ox-Yoke Wonderwad lubed felt wads, seated on top of the powder then your PRB. For 50 cal, I'd suggest an .490 ball with an .018 pillow tick patch. Loads a bit on the tight side but not too bad.

Also try swabbing in-between each shot.
:imo:

My rifles (including a New Englander) with 1:48 all shoot from a locked bench, inside of 3-4" at 100 yards with a worked up hunting charge, Ox-Yoke wad & PRB.

Roundball, I've never tried the next size up wad?? This is better sealing and accuracy then the standard bore size wad? I'll have to try. :hmm:

 

[jaybeach]

A thought that crossed my mind youcrazy was the possibility of additional or swirling wind between the 75 and 100 yard target? Just a thought - though the sight picture idea is probably more likely.