Rust in barrel

[Patched]

that is if Salt is even the problem.

Oxygen is the problem…the SALTS hold the oxygen atoms, many of which are freed and consumed in the “burn” of ignition. The remaining oxygen atoms as a salt residue attack the barrel steel to form iron oxide/rust.
Keeping the oxygen atoms and the barrel steel separated is what all this jawboning is for…I piped up to, perhaps direct the conversation to the essence of problem.

 

[Crown_Pointer]

I think it was that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Our old buddy Einstein is credited with saying that. Some other guy named Antoine Lavasoisier (sp.) said something about "mass" can't be destroyed but can be changed.

E=MC^2 - Energy and matter are equivalent and can be converted back and forth but not destroyed, but more importantly, "Dark Matter" is that crusty stuff found in the barrel after shooting - You heard it here first!

 

[rpatmuck]

I have been shooting and cleaning black powder guns for 50 years. I learned from other shooters that had been doing it for years. That is why I like this site! One can always get shared ideas from folks that know what they are doing. ATF was mentioned here as a good oil to prevent rust. I was told that in 1971 and I still use it and I have never had a rust issue on any of my rifles.

 

[Patched]

Dark Matter" is that crusty stuff found in the barrel after shooting - You heard it here first!

Now that’s using your “grey matter” to unravel the mysteries of the black powder universe…

 

[Patched]

I have been shooting and cleaning black powder guns for 50 years. I learned from other shooters that had been doing it for years. That is why I like this site! One can always get shared ideas from folks that know what they are doing. ATF was mentioned here as a good oil to prevent rust. I was told that in 1971 and I still use it and I have never had a rust issue on any of my rifles.

I’m with you on the ATF as gun oil…(I didn’t get my first GRRW Hawken "kit” until 1975) so I’m a newcomer next to you…Spermwhale oil left the muzzleloader scene years before then so the old timers said to use ATF, after you REMOVE the fouling with lots of warm water.

 

[LME]

I think it was that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Our old buddy Einstein is credited with saying that. Some other guy named Antoine Lavasoisier (sp.) said something about "mass" can't be destroyed but can be changed.

man can't make nor destroy energy the same as with matter it is ,"The law of conservation of mass"

 

[Crown_Pointer]

This is a lot simpler than it appears…
The ”oxidizing“ agent (the oxygen for the burn) in black powder and substitutes is potassium nitrate (KNO3) or some similar SALT.
Most versions of SALTs attract water/moisture (H2O)…
That’s a lot of Os as in oxygen available to create iron oxide (rust) especially when compounded with oxygen in the air.

Our task, as gun owners, is to keep the oxygen and the iron in the barrel steel contacting each other for as little time as possible, only while shooting if possible.

Nothing “neutralizes” the SALT, it must be removed because it is most of the oxygen causing rust. Covering it with oils, grease or wax only keeps airborne oxygen from adding to the rusting.

Only water, glycol, ethanol, alcohol can dissolve the SALT coupled with scrub agitation and constant flushing (hot solution helps) Steam cleaning would be the best.
Once you have clean unsalted steel, then oil, grease, wax to taste to keep the airborne oxygen off the steel.
(Oh and Barrel “seasoners”….give it up)

This is exactly my philosophy. The salt (KNO3 - all of it) must go!! Since I screwed up posting it before here's a movie I made of my steamer - 1st use before I made my stand (steamer sitting on the Bobcat fender). Once the steamer is done you can put on whatever protectorant you prefer but you can see here it's going on clean steel. I use spay oil on the lock and (short term) bore butter in the barrel. Over winter I douse it with Ballistol for storage. No salts and no contact with oxygen!

 

[Robby]

Thats pretty cool Crown!!! I just can't justify the expense.
Robby

 

[Robby]

It’s something we will never agree on because there are too many variables such as.

Water quality is probably the biggest variable, especially when using city and rural water supplies with the many additives. Distilled water would probably be the best.

Soap/cleaning agent ranks high on the list also. While Dawn is a good soap and cleans well I do believe it may aid the corrosion process.

Climate/Physical location is also a biggie. That’s why the Air Force doesn’t mothball it’s airplanes in the southeast part of America. So what is good for one guy may not work as well for another.

Steel composition plays maybe a smaller part with probably some barrels having nickel and or chromium in the alloy.

Lubricant used during and after is probably not really to important in my mind.

It’s all gonna boil down to giving it a good cleaning / drying it well and perform follow up patches and inspections.

Never let the sun set on a dirty gun.

I agree Kansas, thats' why I recommended the backing soda wash, its fast simple and easy. I live out in the country but the town water main runs right by me so I tapped into it. They use some kind of osmosis treatment on the water and I have noticed at certain times of the year the water smells different and my guns clean up different, and not in a good way.
Robby

 

[Britsmoothy]

Oxygen is the problem…the SALTS hold the oxygen atoms, many of which are freed and consumed in the “burn” of ignition. The remaining oxygen atoms as a salt residue attack the barrel steel to form iron oxide/rust.
Keeping the oxygen atoms and the barrel steel separated is what all this jawboning is for…I piped up to, perhaps direct the conversation to the essence of problem.

Yes and no.
The salts when in solution via hygroscopic water absorbsion allow ions in the form of electrolyte to speed up the process of rusting via electrolysis .
Remove the water no electrolyte.
Remove contact with the iron, no electrolysis.
The correct lubricant used during shooting forms insulation preventing electrolysis.

 

[Newtire]

E=MC^2 - Energy and matter are equivalent and can be converted back and forth but not destroyed, but more importantly, "Dark Matter" is that crusty stuff found in the barrel after shooting - You heard it here first!

Then the matter is converted I guess is the gist of what you're saying?

 

[Crown_Pointer]

Then the matter is converted I guess is the gist of what you're saying?

Just to be clear, chemically, matter (and energy) just change form (conservation of matter/conservation of energy) which is applicable here. BUT (going beyond chemically) ol' Albert said E=MC^2 which means they are equivalent to each other and the C squared term says by how much.
You can convert a tiny amount of matter (it's gone) into a huge amount of energy OR with a huge amount of energy you can create a miniscule amount of matter (pops up out of nowhere).
Having said all that this really only applies to us seeking to go out shooting on a nice sunny day.

 

[Red Owl]

Harry- couple of things. Do you have a chrome lined barrel? If not, it seems that- being a smooth bore- you could just lap the inside to get it mirror smooth. As others have said, certain lubes or oils will turn into a brown tar upon the gun being fired. You might want to remove the oils with rubbing alcohol before a shooting session. You may be looking at this brown tar rather than rust.