Rust patch?

[Omahkapi'si]

Need some extra eyes please...checked my Frontier after cleaning last Sunday. Dry patch down the barrel. Is this what I think it is or just burnt crud I didn't get out? Opinions? I am stubbornly using Hoppes but tonight cleaned this manure out with TC#13 and I can't get anymore of anything on patches after scrubbing and scrubbing. It looks clean to me now. May have to park the Hoppes and admit that what I have read about it and BP or BP subs is correct. I am shooting only Triple 7 right now which many say cleans up easy. But not with Hoppes maybe, or I just didn't get all the fouling out. This rifle has about a couple dozen balls through it. The pic is very close to actual coloring.
I have been avoiding water & soap because I don't have air compressors or such to blow out water and worry about rust! I also run pure alcohol down the barrel and through the nipple and hole to help dry what I am already doing for cleaning. Any help is appreciated. I know....use water. Hair dryer maybe so I can sleep at night...

 

[tenngun]

Use water. Old flannel is good to dry with. WD40 or rubbing alcohol sprained will displace and drive out water in the vent.
Then oil or grease barrel well.
Every bodies got an this oil is better then that oil story. Horse pukies
Gun oil, barristol, tranny fluid, 3in1, pure lard,mink oil,olive oil, fish oil, all work well. After wiping on the oil give it a day to settle then wipe again to get excess.

 

[hunter thompson]

Need some extra eyes please...checked my Frontier after cleaning last Sunday. Dry patch down the barrel. Is this what I think it is or just burnt crud I didn't get out? Opinions? I am stubbornly using Hoppes but tonight cleaned this manure out with TC#13 and I can't get anymore of anything on patches after scrubbing and scrubbing. It looks clean to me now. May have to park the Hoppes and admit that what I have read about it and BP or BP subs is correct. I am shooting only Triple 7 right now which many say cleans up easy. But not with Hoppes maybe, or I just didn't get all the fouling out. This rifle has about a couple dozen balls through it. The pic is very close to actual coloring. View attachment 57799
I have been avoiding water & soap because I don't have air compressors or such to blow out water and worry about rust! I also run pure alcohol down the barrel and through the nipple and hole to help dry what I am already doing for cleaning. Any help is appreciated. I know....use water. Hair dryer maybe so I can sleep at night...

boiling water and let cool ..the water disapates then no 13 by t/c then bore butter 40 years not one problem with anything

 

[Britsmoothy]

Boiled water.
Dissolves the nasty stuff so the carbon element is just left.
Heat dries it out with some rodding.
Only been doing it 30years mind and I still dont have an air compressor....bit like the early American settlers I guess!
Have a stirrup pump for the car tyres though and no I ain't never connected it to a muzzleloader!

 

[S.Kenton]

I’d for sure scrub the living tar out of it with wd-40... then coat with Fluid film. That should take care of the issue at hand.

 

[Ames]

Switch to real black powder and clean it with water. It has worked for hundreds of years.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Why do you refuse to use the best, tried & true cleaning method & then use a petroleum based product completely incompatible with cleaning muzzleloaders & you admit you have been warned not to use??? The "stuff" on the patch is the result of Hoppes mixing with your powder fouling. Keep doing it and you will ruin your barrel. Soap & water is all you need to get your barrel sparkling clean. Pumping the soapy water from a bucket using a patched ramrod will flush everything out, either by sticking the breech end in the bucket or using a "flush" nipple. Dry patches will dry your barrel, so you don't need an air compressor. Heck, I have an air compressor & never use it on my MLs. A little alcohol will get rid of any lingering moisture, if your worried about it but I never bother with it. Final patch with a good rust preventive oil. I won't mention any products by name as that tends to stir up senseless arguments, but you've seen the many options here before, I'm sure. Good luck!

 

[Notchy Bob]

Maybe consider what you put in the bore as a preservative after you cleaned the gun. Hoppe's makes a variety of products, and I don't know which you used. For the record, a lot of the commercial "bore butters" oxidize to a brown color that mimics rust. Maybe try wiping your barrel out with a couple of clean patches, then take a look in there. For bores over about .45 caliber, you can actually see pretty well just shining a penlight down the muzzle. If it is actual rust, I would definitely try a different product as a surface protectant.

Conventional wisdom maintains you should never use petroleum products in a muzzleloader, but I use LSA as a bore protectant and have had no issues. I wipe it out before I shoot, clean after shooting with hot soapy water (I use Dawn dish detergent), rinse with hot water, dry, and reapply LSA for storage. Fluid Film was recommended in a post above. Not sure what's in it. I haven't tried Fluid Film on my guns yet, but it works great on tools and I would not hesitate to use it on guns. Just my experience... Others may disagree.

My hypothesis, which I have never seen discussed, is that bare metal oxidizes with exposure to air and humidity. Steel rusts. So, the purpose of the surface protectant on clean, bare metal is to form an air-tight film. The problem with a lot of these Protestants is that they evaporate in time and leave the metal unprotected. My experience with LSA and with Fluid Film is that it does not evaporate, so the metal remains protected for a long time. WD-40 is not corrosive, but it cleans off whatever oil or grease is in your bore and displaces it. The WD-40 then evaporates and leaves the metal bare, so it rusts.

I don't think "bore butters" necessarily evaporate, but I believe they do turn brown as they themselves oxidize. Your bore is likely still protected. The brown color may just be oxidation of whatever you put on it. I don't know what Hoppe's product you used, whether for cleaning or as a preservative, but if it was put on as a surface protectant, it may have oxidized or even evaporated.

Notchy Bob

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Thanks all. The final coat after cleaning was G96 as some suggested in another thread. I have bore butter as well but have not tried it yet other than patch lube. Being new to ML I bought several products. Today it gets boiling water and a little dish soap. Then alcohol pumped through it. Then dried with heat and I will try the bore butter. I have been checking barrel with high power light. That’s when I saw something last night that looked suspicious.

 

[Ames]

Sounds like a good plan. Sub out the bore butter for Barricade.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Fwiw, and your call if you listen, but don’t use bore butter. Contact someone from the Pincher Creek club and have a good discussion on cleaning with them.
Walk

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Thks, Will get it figured out today.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Boys, I just re-read my post, and found the following, in paragraph #3: "The problem with a lot of these Protestants is that they evaporate in time..."

Maybe that's what accounts for diminishing attendance at Sunday services. You reckon? The congregation is evaporating?

Probably ought to ask whoever programmed the spell-check auto-correct function into the system. Honestly, what I wanted to say was, "The problem with a lot of these protectants is that they evaporate...," but Mr. Auto Correct sneaked in behind me to do his work, and by now my "edit window" has expired.

In any event, I apologize if anybody was offended. As for myself, I'm having to clean off the coffee I spewed over the computer screen when I re-read my post...

Does Hoppe's remove coffee?

Notchy Bob

 

[Grenadier1758]

Didn't bother me. I could see right off that spell check was trying to help you out.

 

[SDSmlf]

boiling water and let cool ..the water disapates then no 13 by t/c then bore butter 40 years not one problem with anything

Everyone has to find what works for them. My experience with TC’s #13 was a bit different, at least the bottle I had. Results would have be ok if I was trying to rust brown or blue my barrel. Could not believe how quickly a coating of rust appeared. I do like using boiling water, as it will remove the built up bore butter.

Have to find what works for you and your guns, then stick with it.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I have owned the rifle 20 months and this part has been a journey so far...haha...thanks for the help. Boiling water it is today and we'll see how it goes. Maybe the Ballistol I was blaming for rust earlier wasn't the issue at all....

 

[Okie Hog]

Worked on neglected and improperly maintained muzzleloaders for many years. There are many ways to properly clean and preserve the bores of muzzleloaders. i don't use hot or boiling water, ditto for soap.

My cleaning routine:

1. Before leaving the firing range i swab the bore with a patch wet with Windex Multi-Purpose cleaner, aka Windex With Vinegar. This stuff dissolves the fouling.

2. At home the bore is swabbed with dry patches.

3. The bore is swabbed with a patch wetted with tap water.

3. The bore is swabbed with dry patches.

4. The bore is swabbed with a patch wet with WD-40. If the rifle will be used in the next few months it's put away.

5. If the rifle will be stored long term the WD-40 is swabbed out and the bore treated with a synthetic oil.

One of my rifles has deep rifling. It's hard to remove the crud clinging to the sides of the lands. i use a brass brush to remove that fouling.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Just finished cleaning.
- dry swabbed the barrel, and saw some dark brown stuff similar to the patch in the photo.
- poured boiling water down the barrel with a funnel, let it sit for a few minutes
- then poured it out and poured a lesser amount in so I could swab with the bore mop, vigorously
- poured it out
- dried with patches, including the little patent breech
- dried with the hair dryer down the barrel for a couple minutes
- popped the nipple off, connected my little plastic tube to the hole and pumped alcohol through until it dripped out the muzzle
- dry patches again until nothing left except dry patches coming out, AND THEY WERE SQUEAKY CLEAN
- blew air through the nipple, and the hole where it screws in...a large plastic syringe fits the nipple hole, could hear the air at the muzzle
- an oiled Hoppes patch to lube it and finish off, interesting to note that sometimes ever after cleaning you still see a little bit of lead or crud on the last oily patch....there was NOTHING. Not a spec of anything.

So I will stand it muzzle down for a day or so and then check it with light and dry patch. Hope that got 'er. Not nearly as scary using water as I feared, and if it's clean then that's the way to go for sure. Thanks for the assistance. Will let you know.

Great forum by the way...

 

[Walkingeagle]

The Hoppes will give you a stained patch after a couple days. That’s not rust. Just what Hoppes does.
Walk

 

[Omahkapi'si]

This was just the Hoppes gun oil but maybe it does that too. Good to know. Thks