Rust

[TreeMan]

Kinda off subject concerning lubes a bit but still deals with rust. I have a lot of different muzzleloaders. Long guns and handguns. I notice that some guns rust easier than others. If i shoot five different guns all using Blackpowder, clean them all thoroughly, lube them and come back a week later and run an oily patch down the barrel a few will have a little rust and a few never do. I think a lot of rust issues have to do with the different compositions of the steel used in different guns. I have a SMR I built years ago using a green mountain barrel. It has the most horrible looking browning job on the barrel that you’ve ever seen. It will NOT take to browning solution. I’ve tried to rebrown it numerous times. I finally just let it get its own patina. You can’t make that barrel rust. On the other hand I have a few Italian guns, a colerain barrel, a TC barrel, that when I put a couple coats of solution on, in 24 hours with a little humidity will take on a nice brown finish. A Parker Hale musketoon I have will rust in the safe if you store it with a quart of Mobile 1 in the barrel. Some you have to work really hard to neutralize the browning solution or it continues to rust. If a gun is clean, dry and lubed ive never seen much difference in what type of lube you use to prevent rust. Some barrels just require a bit more attention so I come back a few days later for a second application.

 

[Billy Boy]

I'm sure that my method is not the only good way to clean and prevent rust but it is, like me, the lazy way! Windex, regular or vinegar. Bp fouling is acidic. Both types of windex are basic. (I tested the vinegar windex at work on pH papers and yes it's basic. So, these neutralize the fouling back to neutral, hence no flash rust. Lube with whatever you want and check every few weeks to see if more lube is needed. If you have one that shows a little rust forming in a week then lube again. Some bores are much more prone to rust than others and the explanation of that is above my level of chemistry edumacasion!

I have used windshield washer fluid for years to clean the bore, it does a very fast and complete job regardless of propellant. It is a mixture of alcohol, water, and soap, and, costs less than $2.00 a gallon. After cleaning and drying the bore, oil it with good gun oil, store it muzzle down. Have never had any rust issue except in my joints.

 

[LAD]

After cleaning and dry patches I run a couple of patches with regular automatic transmission fluid on them. ATF is available almost anywhere and a quart will last for years. Never had any rust form in bore.


OK in an effort to not hurt any feelings. My opinion is an old one. Take out the cap plug so there is a hole at the bottom of barrel for a good flush. Hot soapy water with a scrub brush run up and down the barrel pumping the hot soapy water in and out of the barrel. Rinse with hot soapy water until no suds appear. Give the barrel a good coating of Bear Grease or Wonder Lube if you have not taken a bear lately.

 

[Erwan]

Some steel can get rust quickly than others, in that case after washing with soapy water my last patch is a bit soaked in a stuff homemade that looks like Ed's Red but without acetone, works well, long time enough, and it is not expensive...

 

[William Lincoln]

Use whatever you want. I think that 3 in 1 or F-type ATF or
Hoppes gun oil all are good. The key is regular attention.
Old fashioned maintenance. Military studies showed heavy
grade(thick paste) grease prevented oxidative attack on steel
better than anything outside of a molecular bond. You can
still get RIG (rust inhibiting grease) surplus at some old sources
in the green cans. My source dried up a few years back. Also
ATF is good because it functions to protect the internals of
a tranny that is composed of several metals including steel.

 

[sawyer04]

I did not suggest olive oil because it dries to sticky goop, as pointed out. I have examined many guns over the years that were so gooped with congealed olive as to be non functional.

If you only use it for small jobs, like gun cleaning, the caned duster/compressed air is handy.

The cheap stuff will get pretty disgusting. Probably one of the reasons it was bought attention that some distributers were cutting virgin oil with something else, like vegetable oil I suspect. Vegetable will dry to a shellac finish and can be hard to get off. Pure olive isn't cheap.

 

[jimairwin]

I have been making "Ed's Red" formula for years. I use it on all my firearms, I make it by the gallon. Two of the key ingredients are ATF and Lanolin. With the black powder it is hot soapy water first, rinse with fresh Hot water, dry and Eds Red.

As already pointed out, you left out acetone. Great degreasing solvent and fully miscible with water, so helps remove any water. I've switched to Zylene/Zylol, though. Not nearly so volatile, but also a good solvent. Both zylene and acetone are pretty innocuous to the body, BTW. (i.e. won't hurt you). And zylene is not nearly so damaging to gunstock finish as is acetone.

 

[FishDFly]

Zylene, innocuous, won't hurt you.

Do not know who told you that but they are dead wrong.

I worked in the marine industry loading and unloading xylene barges. for 25 years The PPE, proper protective equipment, for xylene is: rubber gloves, goggles, slicker top, and respirator.

Zylene is a part of paint remover.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Use whatever you want. I think that 3 in 1 or F-type ATF or
Hoppes gun oil all are good. The key is regular attention.
Old fashioned maintenance. Military studies showed heavy
grade(thick paste) grease prevented oxidative attack on steel
better than anything outside of a molecular bond. You can
still get RIG (rust inhibiting grease) surplus at some old sources
in the green cans. My source dried up a few years back. Also
ATF is good because it functions to protect the internals of
a tranny that is composed of several metals including steel.

RIG turns to soup in the container when it is hot out. then it gets hardened after a while like any other grease. vaseline will stay the same for months

 

[FishDFly]

"vaseline will stay the same for months"

Use to be a BP gun store in Pasadena, TX, Ronnie the owner, would slather vasoline all over the guns, metal and wood, to keep folks from foundling them.

 

[rrebuck]

Do any of you use Boeshield? It's a spray from Boeing aircraft that dries to a wax/tacky finish. I also like using it on my Lyman stock, so I don't worry too much if it rains.

 

[Griz44Mag]

One question .Are you using water from a water softener? Dosn't that have salt in it? Just a idea

That not how a water softener works. The salt bath is on the other side of the membrane and does not enter the water.

 

[user 34300]

"Use to be a BP gun store in Pasadena, TX, Ronnie the owner, would slather vasoline all over the guns, metal and wood, to keep folks from foundling them. "

Sounds like a great idea, antagonize the prospective customers.

 

[tenngun]

Thanks all for the suggestions, I read somewhere once that WD40 was bad is muzzleloaders but enough people here are using it maybe it's worth a try. Pretty sure I have a full can in the shed.

I'm still not sure what I've done to create the flash rust, the water I used last night by the end was room temp if not on the cold side.

Oil in a barrel makes an o2 proof film that protects the bore. Water has free o2 in it to rust.
I don’t think the oil makes much difference in a clean bore

 

[Kansas Jake]

I’ve used WD 40 since the 70s to displace any remaining water. I spray a generous amount down the muzzle and blow it out through the touch hole or nipple hole. Then I run a few dry patches down the barrel followed by a patch with oil(3 in 1 or barricade). Ive had few problems with rust in 40 years. I usually try to check the firearm after a week or so. WD 40 is fine, just done depend on it as a long term rust preventative or lubricant.

 

[FishDFly]

"Use to be a BP gun store in Pasadena, TX, Ronnie the owner, would slather vasoline all over the guns, metal and wood, to keep folks from foundling them. "

Sounds like a great idea, antagonize the prospective customers.

Ronnie did not care if he ever sold a gun or not, his pockets were really deep from inheritance.

 

[SPQR70AD]

"Use to be a BP gun store in Pasadena, TX, Ronnie the owner, would slather vasoline all over the guns, metal and wood, to keep folks from foundling them. "

Sounds like a great idea, antagonize the prospective customers.

that is what I thought but I would not want to be dealing with the public

 

[FishDFly]

Me neither, but he had stuff no one else had.

 

[Fisher 2021]

This is a long reply, but please read! The key is boiling water!
I use boiling water with a few drops of dishing washing liquid like Dawn. I then submerge the breech end of the barrel in the boiling hot mixture. I dip a cleaning patch with enough thickness to be very barrelnsnug into the water and then push the wet patch down the barrel. Once at the bottom of the barrel I begin a slow pumping up and down action. Soon the patch will create a airtight seal and as you continue the pumping gradually pull the patch higher with each stroke. This airtight seal will fill the barrel with boiling hot water. In fact done right, if in mid-stroke you let go of the ramrod it will sucked back down the barrel with a slam from the suction of the water retreating.
Once the patch is at the top of the bore I stop for 15 secs. or so holding the barrel full of water. Then push down and repeat. This will increase the barrel temp to the point it is nearly too hot to touch. I then run several clean patches. The patches remove the excess water.
The heated barrel then completely dries the residue due to the heat.
I remove the nipple and hammer and submerge it in the hot water before cleaning the barrel.
After cleaning the barrel Dump out the water and remove hammer and nipple. Run Clean pipe cleaner in the nipple. Wipe down hammer with clean patch. The extreme heat of the nipple and hammer will dry the residue of water.
I then use T/C bore butter liberally on several patches to lube the barrel. I run a pipe cleaner in the nipple saturated with Bore Butter and put bore butter on the threads of the nipple.
I then wipe down the outside of the barrel with a bore buttered patch.
The heat of the barrel etc melts the bore butter and it covers all cracks and crevasses.
when I want to shoot again I pour rubbing alcohol down the bore, and follow with several patches until they come out clean. The rubbing alcohol removes the bore butter. Usually no more than 3 patches are needed.
A pipe cleaner dipped in rubbing alcohol cleans the nipple.
The alcohol quickly evaporates.
If the gun has a drum for the nipple I first clean the barrel as explained with the drum in. Then Remove the drum and fill the barrel with hot water with it removed to clean the threads.
In 40+ years I’ve never had one smidge of rust. Or a misfire from the bore butter. In fact I recently brought out a .32 cal drop in barrel for my T/C Renegade. It has been in the safe without use for maybe 10 years. Absolutely no rust anywhere. Cleaned it with alcohol, loaded it and fired it.
The water and soap breaks down and flushes out powder residue in every spot. The heated metal then dries quickly. The melted bore butter reaches every spot for protection from rust.
The first dry patch I run after flushing the barrel never has any discoloration.
I use a plastic coffee can to put the boiling water in to submerge the breech end of the barrel.
I was taught this by the man I bought my first percussion rifle from.
They also make a barrel flushing kit that works well, but powder residue around the nipple threads remains.
Of course this is for a percussion.
Hope this helps.

 

[FishDFly]

Nope, boiling water is not the key, nor is Bore Butter..