Safe Loading Devices

[PaulF70]

Does anyone make any kind of device designed to keep your hand *not* over the muzzle when using a ramrod? Some kind of attachment or special rod?

I have several muzzleloading weapons - modern inlines as well as a percussion rifle and Pedersoli SBS shotgun. I shoot real black in the percussion weapons and 209 in the inlines. I am always careful and have never worried too much about an accident. But I read of something recently that gave me serious pause.

A fellow was shooting pyrodex pellets (which I think have a coating of Black for easier ignition). He took a shot, waited at least five minutes, loaded pellets, loaded bullet. When he drove it home the gun fired. His right hand was pretty much destroyed and he's quite lucky to be alive as the bullet just missed his head.

All with knowledge of the situation seemed to agree he made no mistakes. He followed procedure.

Speculation as to the ignition is all the usual suspects: a burning ember (he did NOT swab after the shot but lots of people don't swab after every shot - I will be from now on), static, and compression (I think & hope that one is actually impossible).

I'm not sure I can ever have any part of my body in the line of fire while loading again without sweating a bit. At least when I'm using black, which we all know kind of wants to ignite if you look at it sideways. I think 209 is so hard to ignite such dangers are very low with you.

 

[colimr]

Safety should ALWAYS be first on your mind when handling a firearm IMHO black powder muzzleloading especially BUT if you have become fearful of loading, shooting or handling a firearm then you have no buisness doing so. Ownership and using a firearm is a huge responsibility respect for it is important as is mastering it's use and maintenance .If you have fear of it your more prone to mistakes Caution is perfectly fine confidence is important and respect is best common sense is the most important of everything .If you don't feel comfortable it is OK but use every day at the range to learn .Talk with shooters like here with years of knowledge never think you can't learn something .Take a breath be careful be confident be knowledgeable And enjoy shooting safely . ...Just an old mans opinion.

 

[necchi]

But I read of something recently that gave me serious pause.

Where did you read that?

 

[Nobody85]

The confederates were ordered to load with the thumb and middle finger around the ramrod. Loosing a finger is a possibility. You have to evaluate what’s important to you. With most anything worth having fun with; there is an element of risk.

 

[tenngun]

Shooting fast is a problem. And cartridges might pose a danger.
I have loaded ball cartridge in a smoothbore flintlock as per military requirement, ie: with a primed pan
Being in a battle is not high on the safety first list.
However if this shooter had this event I’m forced to wonder if he did something unsafe.
I can’t imagine an ember laying hot for five minutes. So I wonder if he truely waited that long.
Was there something shouldn’t have been there?
I’m suspicious of this story
I do swab between shots. Just a damp patch, but it’s enough to make sure there is no ember.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I've yet to meet a patched roundball load that I could ram home with just a thumb and forefinger.

 

[mushka]

I spit patch after every shot in every gun. If on the chance there would be a spark down there the mildly wet patch would put it out as well as swab the barrel. It's just what I do.

 

[akroguy]

Inlines....pellets....abominations.

That's all I'll say about it.

 

[PaulF70]

Safety should ALWAYS be first on your mind when handling a firearm IMHO black powder muzzleloading especially BUT if you have become fearful of loading, shooting or handling a firearm then you have no buisness doing so.

What a silly response. Being fearful of actual danger is intelligent. It's how people survive to pass on their genes.

Do you have anything to say regarding the actual issue? Do you believe an accidental discharge is possible even when everything is done correctly? If not, it seems there exists contrary data. If so, and you're not fearful of such an event - well, I wonder a bit about such a person.

 

[PaulF70]

Where did you read that?

I can't find that story now but here's another:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/are-muzzleloaders-dangerous.31806/

Was told of an accidental discharge. First was a misfire. Shooter let it sit (good move). Shooter pulls ball and then puts some water down the bore. Lets it set for 10 minutes. Then he pushes a wet patch down the bore when it goes boom!.

About the only thing they can think of is compression of that patch causing enough heat for the powder to ignite. Darn freak accident and one in a million.

That's just nuts, isn't it?

Now, to be clear, I think the odds of such a thing are *exceedingly* small when proper technique is used. Still, over the course of thousands of shots spread over decades, it becomes perhaps statistically significant. I'd just rather keep all my body parts.

Grabbing the rod on the sides rather than pushing down seems like a good idea. (I've also heard of guys using a tree or something else stationary for the final push...)

 

[user 34300]

Here we go again...... How about some non hearsay evidence for the AD story. Bottom line, embers are "urban myth". Please search other threads.

Spreading this kind of misinformation is detrimental the hobby. It causes the uninformed to attribute unnecessary danger to black powder. That causes other uniformed people to make rules and regulations that hurt the hobby.

Second, why would anyone put their hand over the end of the ramrod? Unless you choke up on the rod and make short strokes the ramrod will be broken. That will probably impale you hand.

As for better ramrods, use the largest diameter you can. For the shotgun a large diameter wood rod that just clears the bore is excellent as a range rod. For rifles use polished steel that is the largest practical diameter. The added weight makes tight loads smoother and easier. A T-handle is better than a ball handle. When it comes time to pull a ball with a worm you can hook the T-handle over the shooting bench. That is safer and surer pulling on it yourself or with another person. Use it like a slide hammer. In all cases make the range rods extra long so grabbing the outside of the rod is easy.

Swabbing between shots will not take care of any hypothetical ember in most mass market guns. The chambered breech that is commonly used is not swabbed or wetted. Any possible ember in that area would remain. IF a sloppy wet patch is used then misfires are sure to follow. That invites other safety issues.

If a person demands absolute safety, take up reading or TV watching as a hobby.

 

[garypl]

In 50 years of muzzleloading I've never had a load go off while loading but I always grab the rod around the side and do not push down with my hand over the end of the rod, just in case!

I normally use a range rod for target shooting and if shooting from a bag I like to use a thinner patch/ball combination so it doesn't take much to push the ball down. I still always try to remember to keep my head, arm and hand away from the muzzle

 

[Bushfire]

Always a lot of "I heard about" or "a guy I know said his cousins best friends uncles sisters dog had this happen".

Almost every story like these are made up BS - in that it didn't happen or they're leaving out key information e.g. short starting a ball and firing.

In this instance if this truly happened its much more likely the gun was capped/primed and somehow the cock fell or he waited seconds not minutes to reload.

I remember at a shotgun competition the shooter next to me closed his gun and BOOM, shot straight into the trap house (thankfully auto and unmanned - which was only a 50/50 chance at the time). We gathered around and he swore black and blue it was the gun, nothing he had done. We safely tried to replicate it and could not get the gun to fire. Later on he quietly admitted to me that he "may have had his finger on the trigger when closing the gun". He knew dammed well he did, he just wouldn't admit to the embarrassment in front of half the gun club.

For what it's worth, I've loaded loose real black as soon as my shot has fired many times and I've never been able to ignite my powder.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

have several muzzleloading weapons

They are fire arms unless you use them as weapons. A firearm is both offense and defensive.
Depending on how its used. Mine have never been used as a weapon.... Yet.

The properties of the fake powder going into a fake firearm are different than holy black.
One reason to do the flatlander thing, blow in the barrel. But then that might make the ember hotter.

In lines are just another way to kill a dear out of normal shooting season.
Some of us purists HATE THEM

 

[PaulF70]

I'm open to the possibility this is just apocryphal stuff.

However, here is one firsthand story that sounds quite legit:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339750
My range rod has a ball on the end specifically for pushing down on. Perhaps not the best design, and perhaps I'll stop using it.

P.S. As I said in my cap guns I shoot real, loose black only. Certainly never had a hint of an ember.

 

[Rifleman1776]

waited at least five minutes, loaded pellets, loaded bullet. When he drove it home the gun fired. His right hand was pretty much destroyed and he's quite lucky to be alive as the bullet just missed his head.

A most unusual event. But, I did witness a similar event once with a single shot pistol. That was using real bp. Pyro is hard to ignite. I have never heard the pellets were bp coated. Dunno. They might be. FWIW, I swab between every shot, always have, always will.

 

[deermanok]

I've been around muzzleloading for decades and never heard of such a thing.
I guess anything is possible though.
You could maybe lock a pair of vise grips on the ramrod and use that to push the ball down the barrel.

 

[colimr]

What a silly response. Being fearful of actual danger is intelligent. It's how people survive to pass on their genes.

Do you have anything to say regarding the actual issue? Do you believe an accidental discharge is possible even when everything is done correctly? If not, it seems there exists contrary data. If so, and you're not fearful of such an event - well, I wonder a bit about such a person.

Absolutely no disrespect meant .As YOU SAID

What a silly response. Being fearful of actual danger is intelligent. It's how people survive to pass on their genes.

Do you have anything to say regarding the actual issue? Do you believe an accidental discharge is possible even when everything is done correctly? If not, it seems there exists contrary data. If so, and you're not fearful of such an event - well, I wonder a bit about such a person.

NO DISRESPECT MEANT but you expressed a concern a doubt if you will yes black should be handled with respect but looking for a "device" could maybe cause other problems break a ram rod and put it thru your hand break a rod in the barrel not seat the round on the powder these things HAVE documentation but as I said it's my opinion sorry if you got offended please ignore me

 

[Bushfire]

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339750

I'm always Leary of people who sign up to a forum for a rant and never come back. I see he was looking to sue, wonder if anything came of it and if the results are publicly available?

As per my example in my previous post people will lie or stretch things if they think they'll get in trouble or if they think they can gain something.

I'm not saying it's impossible for this to happen. I just know when I was 23 (as was the guy in that thread) I saw lots of stupid things being done by my shooting friends which is one of the reasons I started hunting alone.

 

[user 34300]

It is not my intention to beat up on the OP. I added some more helpful information to my previous post.