Satisfactory bison/elk flintlock rifles - bore size(s) & load(s)

[Naphtali]

While I have no intention of hunting/shooting a bison - I couldn't efficiently use that much meat - I am curious, interested in answers to two related questions pertaining to flintlock round ball rifles with which to hunt bison.

Those of you who have successfully hunted elk and/or bison with flintlock round ball rifles:

1. What, in your experience, is the smallest bore size you would be comfortable and confident to use? And what would be a load for this bore size?

2. If you were creating a flintlock rifle for this purpose, what bore size and load would you use in your creation?

 

[Bill Hall]

I'll leave bison out of my answer, since I don't know the first thing about them, and stick to answers pertaining to elk. (Oh by the way , I could use all that bison meat efficiently! :grin: )

For elk, I wouldn't use anything under a .54 round ball. I've taken a number of elk with that caliber, and it fit the bill perfectly. Flat shooting and faster than larger calibers, and packing a good wallop too.

I am currently in the process of dreaming up my next build, which will be a .58 flintlock, designed specifically for elk hunting. Although I have taken one cow elk with a .58, I don't think it's any better than the .54 per se, I mostly want to cut down on the weight of the gun by increasing the bore size of a 1" barrel. Bill

Oh ya, I used 90 grains of Swiss ffg on that cow I took with the .58, and it was more than enough to stop her right there, almost too much. The next time I use a .58 for elk, I'm going to use 90 grains Goex ffg. You don't need more than that. Bill

 

[flintlock75]

I have not shot an Elk yet or a Bison, But i have taken Moose and Caribou. The minimum caliber would be a .54 with 100grs of 3F. I have taken Moose and Caribou with that load in my .54 cal rifles. I have also used a .72 cal bess carbine on Moose, the big RB is devistating on them with 90grs of 3F.
If i were to have a rifle built for Elk/Bison it would be a transition rifle in .62 cal. with a 100grs of 3F.
I think that a well placed .54 ball will do the job, at any range under 100 yards. If i were to go hunt today i would not hesitate to use my .54

 

[KentuckyBlacksmith]

Id use nothing under a .54 like ther other folks said. I use to shoot a 3 band .58 and would feel better with it.I shot 90 to 100 grains of 3f in the .54 thompson hawken and the 3 band .58..On a side note I can personally attest to how tuff bison. We lived on a tobacco farm for years and there was a bison/brahma farm up the road from us. I worked for him time to time. Ive shot bison, only not with a muzzleloader.

 

[Dphar]

While I have no intention of hunting/shooting a bison - I couldn't efficiently use that much meat - I am curious, interested in answers to two related questions pertaining to flintlock round ball rifles with which to hunt bison.

Those of you who have successfully hunted elk and/or bison with flintlock round ball rifles:

1. What, in your experience, is the smallest bore size you would be comfortable and confident to use? And what would be a load for this bore size?

2. If you were creating a flintlock rifle for this purpose, what bore size and load would you use in your creation?

SHOT PLACEMENT. This is the key.
Historically the 50 was a minimum. This from period comments written about rifles for the western fur trade.
54 is more realistic.
Bigger is better 58 etc. But if going bigger than the 54 I would go to at least 62. I have a rifle that shoots a 1 ounce ball .662 and this would be better. I have named it "masher".
BUT the 62 and 66-69 will not work well in the typical American rifle. These require careful stocking and the late American rifle with a crescent buttplate is a really bad idea.
The English style rifle is the best choice with early Kentucky with wide flat butt and a careful comb design is needed.
Good for large caliber rifle.

Bad for large caliber, over 54-58.

Dan

 

[hawk]

my Dad and a few fellas I know used 90grs ff in a 50 cal renegade for years to hunt moose ,I hunt them with 50,54,62 and 72 cal. ifin I was to build me a new flintrifle I think I would lean towards .62 .
it has good down range whompabilty(see Roundball for definition)and resonable recoil with 90 grs FF, my shots are inside 70 yards




I would also stess that bigger cal. balls DO NOT
make up for poor shot placement ,where you put the ball is a hole lot more important than ball size and powder charge.

 

[hawk]

Hey Phariss you beat me to it LOL anymore pics of that English???

 

[John Thomas]

I've used a .50 cal with 90 grain 3fff black but wasn't so sure it would do the trick. If I ever manage to raise the money for a flinter I think I'll go for a .54 cal.

 

[William O.]

As others have stated, .54 would be my minimum for either one, over at least 90 grains but my .54 shoots well with 110 grains of 2f Goex. If I were building a flintlock for the specific purpose of taking Bison and Elk I'd opt for a .58 with a nice slow twist of around 1:70 and deep rifling.

 

[rawhide]

never hunted bison yet. for elk I love my .54 my elk load is 90 rs a 380 real bullet lubed with wonder lube. works great on elk! and I think this load would work great on a bison.

 

[Dphar]

Hey Phariss you beat me to it LOL anymore pics of that English???

Has the Manton recessed breech lock form The Rifle Shoppe with Manton TG and BP.
Has a wide groove narrow land barrel, 1:80 twist.

One ounce ball at 1700 fps

Dan

 

[hoochiepapa]

This 5x5 was taken with a Cabela's Hawken .54, 110 grs. poopodex, Great Plains bullet, at about 40 yards, maybe 50. I shot him as he was quartering toward me, behind the shoulder, he whirled around and stood there while I reloaded. I shot him again behind the shoulder and he ran about 100 yards DOWNHILL AWAY FROM THE TRUCK!
Elk are tough! Shot placement is critical!
Both bullets stopped in the skin on the opposite side, and his internals were mush.
I also tried to hunt bison on a ranch in Wyoming, but they would'nt let me use my "special rifle". Her words.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Ooops!! That was 100 grs. of poopodex.

 

[saber]

I like the 54 cal for moose have taken a few and it works well with 90 -110 grs of 2ff also have used my 58 and works good also with same 2ff load and have used my 62 for moose all work good the best thing is to know your gun and range and put the ball wear it needs to go if not you will not have meat I would not go below a 54cal up here

 

[hawk]

Dan that Manton is a thing of beauty ,Thanks for the pics :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

One ounce ball at 1700 fps

That pretty well sezz it all about bigger bores and large charges. You need a suitable stock design and lots of practice for them to do their intended job. Nice photos and a great rifle!

 

[Ft. Jefferson]

I've killed 4 elk now, all with flinters. 3 with 54cal rifles and 1 with a 62cal fowler. All PRB's and all at 90grs-3fg. All shots were broadside in the black timber at under 45yds. In all cases i found the ball under the skin on the off side. The 62cal shot was a bit high and took out both shoulder blades. There's no doubt in my mind that the 54cal is the best all-round caliber for bigger game hunting. Energy produced for powder burned is as close to balanced as we get in these guns. Also; comparing elk to buffalo is IMO, apples to oranges. Buffs are twice the size of elk and of a different body structure. Although i'd likely use the same calibers for buff's, i'd certainly go to conicals if under 62cal. Just my thought's. Buzzard

 

[longcruise]

Won't speak to the buff part of the question cause I've never shot one or seen one shot.

As far as elk goes, a .50 would probably do but a .54 would be better and is my own min cal for elk. Prefer a minimum of 1650 fps with a bit faster just fine. My gun gets there with 80 grains of 3f and I often go to 90 or so.

 

[brubincam]

-----how about a Pennsylvania rifle 69 cal flint 48 in barrel-----too much for bison or elk----- :idunno:

 

[BrownBear]

As long as it was loaded stiff enough for the trajectory needed where you hunt, I'd pick it over my 62! But "too much" might be more about what happens on the butt end rather than the ball end if you're hunting in open country.

I just like big holes in a barrel, and I can't conceive where a 69 wouldn't do a good job when the ball lands in the right spot. Doesn't mean smaller would be less effective, though.