Serial Number Dating a T/C

[vintovka]

Sorry to revive this old thread but i recently got an item back that know for sure was made by Hall Sharon himself. Back when I worked with him he had a couple drums of tc contender barrels that were rejected by BATF over the .45/.410 issues. It is one Hall gave decades ago and marked with a Maltese cross ( like German iron cross). Same mark on many barrels made by him. Will post pic if anyone cares,

 

[FishDFly]

That would really be nice and informative.

 

[smo]

Please do...Thanks

 

[necchi]

Sorry to revive this old thread but i recently got an item back that know for sure was made by Hall Sharon himself. Back when I worked with him he had a couple drums of tc contender barrels that were rejected by BATF over the .45/.410 issues. It is one Hall gave decades ago and marked with a Maltese cross ( like German iron cross). Same mark on many barrels made by him. Will post pic if anyone cares,

Very confusing post here vintovka.
What did you get back? And from where?
Contender barrels and ".45/.410" doesn't fit anything about this forum so I don't understand.
"Back when I worked with him"(?) When was that? And during that time did you as an "employee" used a stamp to mark any barrels?
What was your "job" or task while working with Hall Sharon?
Get my point? Running a mill or sweeping the floor?
Yes; Please supply a photograph

 

[Skychief]

vintovka, I'm very interested in what you have to share about that stamp and Sharon supplying barrels to TC.

I've had several TC' s over the years with this, and other stamps on the underside of their barrels. Very little seems to be know about what the stamps represent.

I would have to look at some of my rifles to remember, but, either those marked with the cross stamp as you mentioned, or those with a spade-shaped stamp shot better than the others. Edited to say that maybe those with a capital M shot best. It's too late for me to look now.

Thank you, Skychief.

 

[Rifleman1776]

FWIW, I bought my TC 'not-really-a-hawken-hawken' in late 1970. It came with the dreaded and notorious gap where the breech should have shouldered tightly with the bore. Pure patch grabber and made the rifle essentially useless. At the time TC did not like to warranty their products. I lived near Friendship and had some good backing trying to get help from TC. Maxine Moss, Max Vickery, Webb Terry and other NMLRA notables hounded the TC company until they relented and sent me a new barrel assembly. I still have that barrel even though it has been a safe queen for decades. On the bottom is a faintly stamped maltese cross, a side flat has # 20595 presumably the serial number. And, of course, the caliber and advertising on another flat. I know a ser. # in the 20,000 range is not low-low, there are some four digit barrels still turning up. But, to me, this indicates just how vigorous sales and acceptance of the TC 'hawken' was at that time. It was shortly after this experience that TC announced their new policy of lifetime warranty.

 

[vintovka]

Wow. was just trying to help provide first hand info. I tried to upload reduced size pics but no happening as forum size limits are low. I can send to a forum member via email and maybe they can post it here. Actually Hall worked for me on contract stuff. During that time I helped in the shop and gained some valuable machining/rifling expertise. This was back in 1985-86 ( i think) at his shop near Sonora CA. Hall had previously made Hawken Barrels and other stuff for TC like the prototype .45/410 Contenders. Several drums of nearly completed ones were result of a short barreled shotgun issue at the time. He made them all and stamped them with the Maltese cross. He specifically recalled how same stamp on Hawkens And on his own barrels including a 20 gauge hawken drop in. I used to speak to him at lenght about the loss of his own company and problems working for TC. Think same stamp was used on Green Rifle Barrels he completed as custom jobs. Hall taught many gunsmith classes at Lassen College and hopefully many remember him from that. The Item is question is one of the partially completed .45/.410 with the stamp as rescued fro one of the drumfulls before they were scrapped. Hall gave it to a good friend whose estate we are helping to liquidate.

 

[necchi]

Wow. was just trying to help provide first hand info.

Thank You, Truely.
But the entire internet world has been searching for "first hand knowledge" for about 20yrs. So your sharing here now at this time is a bit of a surprise.
We all have learned that several small shop's supplied T/C with barrels in the early years,, but the markings of the individual shops and dates of the supply have always been a quandary
Look for a message from me,, I can help with pics.

 

[vintovka]

Necchi I sent a pic to your email. The cross is badly stamped but legible if you blow it up. Hall told me he made barrels for TC from just after they started up and until mid 1970's. He said there were some serious contractual problems which i associated with being unable to keep up with demands of the time. Other projects like the contender barrels may have increased his work load. Assume TC added contractors after that. Hall and his custom rifling machines were amazing and could produce high quality stuff, just very slowly. Several of his family worked right with him at the time and are still around the Sonora area. Research the SHARON BARREL COMPANY for more details or visit http://grrw.org/sharon-rifle-barrel-co/. Now Bill Wescombe is a another long TC related story. And no i didn't sweep the floors.

 

[Skychief]

If you had swept the floors, there would be no shame in that. Good, honest work. Not sure why anyone would have a need to ask another a question like that. Thanks for sharing this great information.

Best regards, Skychief

 

[necchi]

Ok, got it;


It is a bit hard to see, and the other one of the two photo's you sent demonstrates it's from a Contender barrel, but I have no reason to doubt that this is proof positive, from first had knowledge, that the Maltese mark is from Sharon.
Can you give us an idea what years you worked with Hal Sharon?

 

[necchi]

If you had swept the floors, there would be no shame in that. Good, honest work. Not sure why anyone would have a need to ask another a question like that. Thanks for sharing this great information.

Best regards, Skychief

Your right, entry level/apprentice work like sweeping floors is still dignified work in a craftsman's shop.
It's asked for validity. And the answer was he didn't work FOR Sharon, he worked WITH the shop,, as a purchaser or other agent.
, so that's a kind of clarification isn't it?
After all it is a 12yr old thread, some folks might read this another 12yrs from now.

 

[vintovka]

Ok, got it;
View attachment 7304

It is a bit hard to see, and the other one of the two photo's you sent demonstrates it's from a Contender barrel, but I have no reason to doubt that this is proof positive, from first had knowledge, that the Maltese mark is from Sharon.
Can you give us an idea what years you worked with Hal Sharon?

 

[vintovka]

Think 0ff and on from about 1985 to maybe as late as 1988 when i served as State engineer at Jamestown Mine. Had to check the dates as my memory is fading. Saw him a bit after that at shows and stuff. Even after he passed, his family used to thank me for the work i gave them and said it kept them going when times were tough. Working for TC seemed like it was hard for him. He was a meticulous machinist who chose extreme high quality over quantity. Probably his undoing. I would value any thing made by him.

 

[Bledfor Days]

I recently aquired a TC Hawken percussion rifle serial # 102xxx from the original owner. He said he got it in 1982.
It has a heart stamp on the underside.
It came with a TC accessory pack consisting of a short starter, mold with handles and some .018 patches. He also gave me a real cool powder measure with a funnel attached but couldnt remember if it came with the other accessories.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have a Sharon rifle barrel stamped Sharon of about 1970 vintage. This was a barrel that was breeched with a T/C "Hawken" breech. The barrel does not have the maltese cross stamp. I have posted pictures in another T/C thread.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Here's the pictures from earlier in this thread.

This is only one example but its all I have.

The closest I can come to a Sharon barrel of 1975 vintage is what can best be referred to as a Northwest Florida Special rifle made in the mid 1970's by a gunsmith who believed that the T/C lock and breech were just special and he made a rifle using a T/C breech/plug on a Sharon barrel. The builder wanted to verify the accuracy of muzzleloading rifles so he mounted several sights and scopes on it. The closest to the Hearts, Spades and Clubs and other identifying features was in his "Bridge" sight mount with the heart, spade, and diamond. The Club is in the shape of the architecture. I bought the rifle and added the T/C tang mounted Peep sight.

Pictures follow with the only mark being the Sharon stamp :

View attachment 1721 View attachment 1722 View attachment 1723

In my cabinet is a T/C Hawken Kit rifle (pre Warning) of the same vintage.
View attachment 1724

It has a diamond stamped near the breech and the M in a circle near the wedge dovetail.

View attachment 1725 View attachment 1726

The T/C turned out pretty good and its what started me on shooting a building muzzleloaders.
View attachment 1727

You will have to expand the quote and click in the "view attachment" to see the pictures.

 

[Boatncamp]

If it will help give you some perspective, my .50 cal. T/C Hawkin flintlock was bought new in 1975 and is in the high 10,000's for serial number.

Interesting....my .50 cal Hawken purchased new, mail order around 1975 or 1976 (I think) has a number of 143xxx

 

[necchi]

I have a Sharon rifle barrel stamped Sharon of about 1970 vintage. This was a barrel that was breeched with a T/C "Hawken" breech. The barrel does not have the maltese cross stamp. I have posted pictures in another T/C thread.

Thank you for sharing, and for the above links with your different "M" stamped barrel.
So it's pretty simple for me to understand that Sharon made and sold their own barrels that would have a "sharon" stamp, and that sharon would install for a customer any "breech" or breech/tang fit the customer wanted,, right?
Those "Sharon" made barrels where or could have been sold as Sharon made.
When Sharon made barrels for T/C,, it could be that T/C required that the barrel not be identified with the makers name and just used a simple stamp instead to designate individual suppliers to follow warranty issues.

Point is. A Sharon barrel made for market is a Sharon barrel marked as such no matter how it's breeched,
A Sharon made barrel for T/C as a sub-contractor may not necessarily be stamped Sharon,, but with a simple identifier as vintovka has shared with us.
Get it?

 

[mechteacher]

.54 cap Renegade bought new 1990
S/N 223***