RATROD56
40 Cal
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OK, thank you anyway.
Serial Number Dating a T/C
- Thread starter oldwolf
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I have a kit I put together around 1975 or 76. It is serial number is K50XX and I don't remember if the local gun shop had it in stock or if they ordered it for me.
RATROD56
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I have a question then, because it's a kit, does it make it "less of a rifle?" What I mean is, is it like kit cars, not really a Hawken? Forgive me, I'm completely new to black powder and this is my first rifle
The parts in a kit and the parts in a factory assembled rifle are the same. What would make a kit "less of a rifle" is if the kit was shoddily assembled. Many of the kit rifles are very well put together and are fine rifles.
I have a T/C Hawken fit rifle that I put together. I have won several matches with it. Because of all the liberties that T/C took in the manufacture of the rifle, Neither the factory assembled not kit rifles are not really a Hawken unless you include some of the small caliber, brass mounted rifles built for the eastern and local market, the Hawken squirrel rifles that do look like a T/C Hawken or a Dimick rifle.
I have a T/C Hawken fit rifle that I put together. I have won several matches with it. Because of all the liberties that T/C took in the manufacture of the rifle, Neither the factory assembled not kit rifles are not really a Hawken unless you include some of the small caliber, brass mounted rifles built for the eastern and local market, the Hawken squirrel rifles that do look like a T/C Hawken or a Dimick rifle.
RATROD56
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I meant no offense, I was just wondering. I didn't know if in the black powder world a kit was looked at like that.
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K serial numbers are for real kit guns.
SamTex1949
32 Cal.
I think more "kits" were completed then Ml's from scratch. How well the kits were finished sadi morwe about the individual's desire and intent to create a ML shooter they could enjoy and be proud of. My 1st Kits 9in 1974) was a Minuteman rifle, .36 cal , all inlet work done but still a lot of wood finishing to do and all metal in the white, the only thing done was breechplug installed and dive tails cut. I was very happy with it ! Next I bought a Green River Semi-Finish Kit .54 cal, all metal in white and stock final sading and finish. later in 70s I acquired 2 more kits from Sharon, a .54 cal Hawken half stock and a .62 cal Hawken fullstock ! Both were "semi-finished" kits, Assembled but metal in white and wood finish sading and stain. "I" was happy with the results in all, in now way was I a master craftsman but I was also tickled to show them off and shoot and hunt with ! So "NO" kits arent ever "less".
No offense was taken.
At my Traditional Black Powder Muzzle Loading Rifle Club, members shoot rifles ranging from T/C (Factory and kit), CVA, Lyman and various custom rifles. At the end of the day its the score on the target that matters. The mass produced and kit rifles perform quite well.
I have two TC sidelock cap rifles. A .54 cal kit gun and a .36 cal Seneca, both acquired in the late 80's . I consider both excellent rifles, modern examples of authentic muzzle loading guns. Not originals but every bit as good, or maybe even better because of the modern materials they were made out of. I like them both.
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I suspect if one is selling a TC Hawken a kit gun would not be worth as much as a factory assembled gun. Of course there are always exceptions based on assembly skills etc. Either way they are nice rifles and unless a kit gun was really botched either should give good service.
I've read that after the fire when TC lost all of its records there is no way to date a TC. Serial numbers can be all over the place and you can't use them to get a ballpark date. You do have a kit gun, as the ones sold as kits have a "k" at the beginning of the serial number.
The best you can do in semi dating a TC is to look for the differences there are in some of the parts, as they changed a bit over the years. The earlier TC's had a taller hammer spur as opposed to the later ones with a lower and more turned back hammer spur. The rear sights were also a bit different, the earlier ones had a shorter in length rear sight that was more rounded on the muzzle end side of it as opposed to a longer, more square rear sight on later models.
My TC Renegade has the high hammer spur and shorter rear sight. It has a 52xxx serial number for what that's worth.
There are folks on here much more versed in TC's and they will likely chime in.
Back in the day when T/C honored the lifetime warranty for the factory rifle but did not honor the warranty for the kit gun, that would be true. Now there is no lifetime warranty so the worth of a T/C would be based on the condition of the gun.
bore_butter
36 Cal.
I have a back in the day 1975 TC Kit .50cal. hawken never jotted the serial# down but I broke a tap off in the clean out plug hole and used it like that till 1985. I removed the breach plug in the summer of 85 and tried to order a new one from the factory. they said no go send the barrel to us. about 2 weeks later I received a new K barrel #K144XXX that was already blued, along with the front sight on it and all the new rod barrels and screws and barrel mount shaft.
I'm guessing that all the kits from 85 on had blued barrels included.
I'm guessing that all the kits from 85 on had blued barrels included.
fourbore
40 Cal
I would buy a kit in person with a very careful examination. I would not want one purchased over the internet accept as a parts project. I do agree condition is everything. Condition covers a lot of territory.
My reasons are most kits were purchased to save a few dollars or practice/learn gunsmithing. Or both. Very few end up better than factory (or dare I say equal). I admit speculation here. A semi-skilled DIY person, take myself, unlikely mastered both wood working and metal working. And I knew a lot less in my youth. Even a step as simple as blue or brown, involves knowledge. A factory TC may have a little dap of bedding in key spots like under the tang. Who knows about that or other tricks of the build?
My reasons are most kits were purchased to save a few dollars or practice/learn gunsmithing. Or both. Very few end up better than factory (or dare I say equal). I admit speculation here. A semi-skilled DIY person, take myself, unlikely mastered both wood working and metal working. And I knew a lot less in my youth. Even a step as simple as blue or brown, involves knowledge. A factory TC may have a little dap of bedding in key spots like under the tang. Who knows about that or other tricks of the build?
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I’ve seen some members here turn out works of art with kit rifles. I’d gladly pay way more than factory built on some of these fine examples.
Lastly, you can take a $400 kit and produce a $900 rifle, or you can take that same kit and produce a $150 rifle?
All in patience, knowledge, experience, and lastly, effort.
Respectfully, Cowboy
Lastly, you can take a $400 kit and produce a $900 rifle, or you can take that same kit and produce a $150 rifle?
All in patience, knowledge, experience, and lastly, effort.
Respectfully, Cowboy
bore_butter
36 Cal.
as far as I know all tc gun kits have serial #'s
Crow-Feather
32 Cal.
Everybody has a reply, see ...... even me.
fourbore
40 Cal
The OP specifically asked: (EDIT - The recent OP Feb 2020 resurrected this old thread)
RATROD56 said:
The answer is depends. With a factory gun you more/less know what you are getting. On a kit you got to take it on case by case example.
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