Shooting the .451 Volunteer rifle :)

[Racing]

A few tips on Whitworths as well as Volunteers.

First up,weak loads might put you on paper but will not serve you as distances increase. These rifles were never ment to handle 40 or 50 grains of powder.
Pick a bullet type and run with it ´til you´ve exhausted what it´s got to hand you.
A typical load ladder for one of these rifles would be 2-3grain increments,starting at 70 grains and keep with it upwards until you see groups opening up again. This normally happens around the 100 grain mark or so.
Very many seems to like around the 80-85 mark. We all weigh our charges and plastic "powder tubes" is a downright must.

Loading procedure is everything. First and foremost most of us don´t "tap" anything. Either drop tube or just pour,but be semi anal about the powder charge finding its way home. Drop tube will show its use as distance increases.
I for one use an overpowder card next. Just cut it to 50cal size out of milk carton and shove it in there.
Then either a grease cookie followed by a greased 1/8" wad,or if i get away with it the wad only.
NEVER use tapping or force by any measure. Last but not least the bullet,and to seat it i just "lean into it". IOW..still no hammering,ramming or the likes. Just the ramrod,which should be of ample proportions (so called range rod) to take your weight the same over and over and over...
Some shade tree shooters thus makes good use of a regular bathroom scale,might be worth mentioning.

Swab we do after the new charge is in place,together with the rest of the load SANS the bullet. Damp patch followed by two dry ones. IOW there´s no chance of a damp patch contaminating anything.

Of course you have to start somewhere as far as loads and what not,see how the rifle prints and so on,but that done please be adviced that these rifles were never intended for 50yard plinking. I´d say that 100 meters is stretching it even,and isn´t the intent of it either.

They ARE challenging and they DO reward as you get it right though.

 

[Racing]

Here an original Thomas Turner volunteer at work. Friend Roger putting it through its paces.

 

[Stantheman86]

This is awesome info , Thank You Racing.

I'm at the point still where I need to try 3f, and then work up a load.

I haven't tried the alloy bullets, are they hard on the bore? I have only used pure lead.

My rifle range goes to 300, my goal is to put this rifle on paper out to 300, and then maybe find a longer range in my area.

And I'm changing the front sight to an old Redfield globe , it looks close enough to models from the 1860's-1880's I've seen so as to not feel "farby" about it.

 

[Racing]

As far as bullets,stick to pure lead for as long as possible.
Thing is that as you progress to solid base ones it´s the powder charge that´s supposed to make the bullets obturate.
In short alloy ones will do this later than all lead ones. All in all it´s sort of a trade-off and it comes down to stuff like rifling depth,progression and what not.
If you use pure lead bullets and see evidence of bore leading try to find out why. Mark that leading can come from to hard a bullet too as this hard bullet won´t obturate and thus leave room for open flame to pass the bullet base.

All this is part of the game,finding out what the optimum setup for your particular rifle is.
Were it me and that P-H i´d start per reference. Ie;70-80 grains of powder. Also mark that some of these,like my original Whitworth,is referenced with 3F powder. Yet another factor to take into account.
At 70 grains you should get ample "bump" at the base of the bullet and as such a bullet that exhibits no gas cutting or the likes at all.
Go low..and a solid base bullet simply won´t expand enough and..you´re in a heap of trouble.
Hence the use of greased wads as these wads assists the obturation taking place. In other words always use one.

 

[ResearchPress]

Hence the use of greased wads as these wads assists the obturation taking place. In other words always use one.

Interesting comment. I never used a greased wad with my Parker-Hale Volunteer (Henry rifling), although I did clean between shots. 90 grains of TPPH (similar to Swiss No.4/1.5Fg), plain card wad, wipe bore with damp, then dry patch, 535 grain grease groove pure lead bullet. With this combination I won several matches and held the Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain national record at 600 yards for several years.

David

 

[Racing]

We use them routinely David.
More or less no matter what we shoot.

Regard the Monkey tail. There they´re even used as seals.

 

[Stantheman86]

I assume the lubed wad helps keep the fouling soft too

 

[Tobee]

View attachment 4828
I'm thinking , sized down to .450 , with a lighter charge like 50gr of 3f, might be fun in paper cartridges

I missed the "might be fun part" of this post. Those bullets must have been pricey. No need to make light loads. Leave that to me. haha. Would be cool to have a plinking bullet/load in the volunteer's bag of tricks. Will post if/when I come up with something good. Good for friends and kids, I think.

 

[Stantheman86]

They're like $25 per 50, maybe I'll go with 60 gr of 3f with these hollow base bullets.

 

[Racing]

On the topic of grease.
There´s about as many "solutions" to this as there is shooters i guess but indeed grease keeps the fouling soft.

This becomes especially apparent with certain bores. Just recently i tried to fool around with it with my newly aquired Whitworth,adding grease as i went. From a loading point of view it´s like night and day of course,and getting the fabled "star pattern" at the muzzle was the name of the game.
Accuracy wise,well..to early to tell. We´ve played around with this and the use of greased wads (mark-greased) and a few things have become clear.
Over a chrono SD and ES goes down when using them,which i guess stands to reason. This holds true more or less universal. Ie;to the degree where no matter if a revolver or long gun.
When we pull stuff like this,for rifles,we normally use a very good shooting bench and optics,on the gun in case that is. Of course to rule as much human error out as poss. Reasoning has been such that the use of greased wads will also protect the base of the bullet. As the trailing edge of a bullet and how it leaves the bore is imperative to performance.

Swabbing between shots though is still good practice,hard fouling or no. Seems some swear by grease and others by blow tubes and yet others...yeah well.
Also be aware that deep chamber fouling will diminish as charges and bullet weight go up.

 

[pchwcf50110]

If you read old British target shooting literature swabbing the bore was done only down to the area where the bullet sat. After the rifle was fired powder was poured into the barrel via a long funnel so it went straight to the breech, card wad and felt lubed wad seated over the powder, then barrel was swabbed, finally bullet was seated. This way moisture was never introduced into the powder chamber and the bullet wasn't damaged by seating over fouling and bore condition remained consistent.

 

[ResearchPress]

We use them routinely David. More or less no matter what we shoot.

I seldom see greased wads used shooting small-bore (.451) muzzle loading match rifles. Most insofar as I see in the UK long range muzzle loading matches are shooting paper patched bullets, with card wads and cleaning between shots. Last year, I won an aggregate match fired at 200, 300 & 400 yards, another at 1000, 1100 & 1200 yards, plus the MLAGB 900 and 1000 yard National Rifle Championship matches, so for me it works. As you say though above, there are many "solutions"; the key I think being the careful management of the rifle to maintain consistency.

The most successful (match winning) Whitworth rifle shooter I have seen in recent years used a paper patched cylindrical bullet with deep base cavity, similar to original bullets. This was seated directly on the powder - no wads were used at all.

David

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm going to try swabbing with the charge and wad in place.

I really need to bench rest this rifle to see what it can do

 

[Tobee]

British muzzleloaders has a nice 10 minute presentation on the volunteer, on youtube. I followed his load sequence without really understanding why. Shot at 100 yards; second range trip with the rifle. I weighed charges, used plastic vials and made a functional if not ugly powder drop tube using a golf club shaft. Shot a couple groups: 60 grains 2F goex, lyman 451114 cast and sized to .451. No greased wad. No issues with fouling. Got the mold on sale from Midway for 69 bucks. Can try greased wad over the card next.

 

[Tobee]

If you read old British target shooting literature swabbing the bore was done only down to the area where the bullet sat. After the rifle was fired powder was poured into the barrel via a long funnel so it went straight to the breech, card wad and felt lubed wad seated over the powder, then barrel was swabbed, finally bullet was seated. This way moisture was never introduced into the powder chamber and the bullet wasn't damaged by seating over fouling and bore condition remained consistent.

Idaho Ron and Idaho Lewis showed their method of keeping the breech and barrel clean also. Lot to learn here, ya?

 

[Racing]

Yup on the Whitworth and PPB David.
As you know i´m just starting out trying to get to grips with my Whitworth,testing it every chance i get,which for the time being seing it´s winter here still ...means twice a week approx.

The volunteer rifles in turn though OTOH is nothing new to us. In turn there was a few made up here on the same theme in turn so.. I dunno if you´ve seen that post on the chamber loader,but even that hand cannon in 63 cal is a 1000 yard gun! Back in the day we had an officer or two competing with them long range down mainland Europe. That said there´s a number of other such rifles that stem out of this place,about on par with the British alternatives. Guess after Sir Joseph n teams work most countries did. In contrast most up here were 48cal though.

All good as far as shooting sans wads,that´s not what i´m saying David. We have however tossed and turned this to harms end and the chrono coupled with real world results has told us what i put forth. Right or wrong? Hey,you tell me. I try and be analythical about this, as you are. Agreed total that very much of consistent accuracy is a matter of loading procedure. No argument. Over powder cards,wads yadda yadda.. We can debate this ´til hell freezes over i guess and won´t have pushed any further then we are current.
To me the imperative part is the lower SD and ES across the chrono though. The lower those numbers the better and if we compare to "modern" gun long range it´s become such a necessity that those of us shooting beyond 1500 meters go nowhere without that chrono in the bag.

As for PPB vs GG there´s TONS to be said. Again though,what´s right or wrong.? PPB is a field of expertise all in its own IMO. Being analythical in approach is everything in my book and seeing the amount of variables involved kind of makes one hesitant when we get into PPB´s.
Many of the successful BPCR boys though even stack wads..to downright columns of them.

That said. What´s YOUR findings on wads as well as greased wads?

 

[Stantheman86]

The British Muzzleloaders guy is very responsive to comments. People asked why he swabs with a charge in place, he said it's to avoid having to pop a cap after swabbing.

As cheap and available as wads are, like $6 per 100 I'll keep trying them.

Informal testing with the 8x8" steel swinger at 200 yards allowed me to hit it with or without a wad but I think the wad comes more into play as per the preference of each individual rifle and as you reach farther out to say, 500 yards.

 

[fleener]

I use a lubed wool felt wad in my Rigby shooting PPB. It changes the accuracy in that rifle quite a bit. At 100 yards my groups went from 2.5" to right at an inch.

For GG bullets I have used no wads and veg fiber wads both successfully. Just kinda depends on what the rifle likes.

Fleener

 

[ResearchPress]

All good as far as shooting sans wads,that´s not what i´m saying David. We have however tossed and turned this to harms end and the chrono coupled with real world results has told us what i put forth. Right or wrong? Hey,you tell me.

My measure of real world results is what those that are competing and winning matches with. We are however talking about quite a variety of rifles here, from Whitworth's hexagonally bored rifle, Alex. Henry's deeply rifled barrel (as found on the most commonly encountered Parker-Hale Volunteers), through to later Metford shallow grooved rifling. Each may well perform better with different management; with wad, without wad, with wad stack, shooting 'dirty' or cleaning between shots, grease groove bullet or paper patched, mechanical fit, pure lead, hardened bullets.... Lots to try and ultimatley work out what gives the accuracy sought. I have had my share of success and am confident with what I do to manage my rifles - that confidence is essential at long range. Prevailing light and atmospheric conditions bring in enough variables to concentrate on, I don't want other distactions.

As for PPB vs GG there´s TONS to be said. Again though,what´s right or wrong.? PPB is a field of expertise all in its own IMO. Being analythical in approach is everything in my book and seeing the amount of variables involved kind of makes one hesitant when we get into PPB´s.

I've never considered paper patching as having lots of variables; I like it's simplicity. Give the bullet a simple wrap. Load powder & tight fitting stiff card wad, wipe bore, seat bullet.

What´s YOUR findings on wads as well as greased wads?

I don't shoot my Whitworth much; those that compete with theirs appear to have such a variety of solutions - thin wads, thick wads, felt wads, hex bullet, cylindrical bullet, various powders grades... it seems to be the perfect rifle for the inveterate tinkerer!

I sold my Henry rifled Volunteer maybe 15 years ago. I tried lubed felt wads over a card wad (I had concern about whether lube from the felt would affect the powder otherwise) and don't recall any difference when I removed the variable / extra loading step that the felt introduced. I won matches with the card wad, grease groove bullet combination so was content. With a Gibbs-Metford I load as my comment on PPB; I've never tried felt wads with it.

I'm not making recommendations, just offering what I am content working with - opinions and experiences will vary. For me right now, the biggest variable is my performance as I don't shoot / train enough. The shooter I think is often the most neglected variable; it's easier to try a new bullet or a different powder charge than simply get to the range regularly and train.

David

 

[fleener]

For me right now, the biggest variable is my performance as I don't shoot / train enough. The shooter I think is often the most neglected variable; it's easier to try a new bullet or a different powder charge than simply get to the range regularly and train.

I second that.

Fleener