Shooting TWO patched balls?

[smo]

Thank Ye’ Kindly.

 

[George]

Physics rears its ugly head. If you keep the powder charge the same and double the weight of the projectile, velocity will drop about 30%. That has significant consequences as relates to the trajectory both balls will fly, so that, in essence, the rifle is no longer sighted to hit the original point of aim, and the longer the range the worse that gets. Then, if you manage to hit the target, penetration will be proportionately reduced.

Spence

 

[smo]

Spence have you done any test with two balls? Just curious,,

Do you remember the testing Roundball did a few years back?

You are correct the heavier the load, the quicker it looses energy/ velocity and accuracy.

A lot of the lost energy, is lost in the added recoil of the shot.

 

[George]

I have never shot two balls. I do remember the discussions by Roundball and his experiments.

The two balls don't lose velocity, they start off slower. Once they are moving, they will each lose velocity the same as if only one ball was fired at the lower velocity. They aren't hooked together, they each act as one ball.

Heavier projectiles lose velocity less quickly than lighter ones.

Spence

 

[Black Hand]

I have never shot two balls. I do remember the discussions by Roundball and his experiments.

The two balls don't lose velocity, they start off slower. Once they are moving, they will each lose velocity the same as if only one ball was fired at the lower velocity. They aren't hooked together, they each act as one ball.

Heavier projectiles lose velocity less quickly than lighter ones.

Spence

I'm still wondering why someone would want to shoot 2 balls at the same time and nothing I've heard thus far is very compelling. While someone may have done some testing at some point with some gun in no way translates to success for someone else with some other gun. Shoot one bullet, put it in the right place and collect your game. If you want to shoot more than one projectile, get a smoothbore - that is what they do best...

 

[George]

I'm still wondering why someone would want to shoot 2 balls at the same time...

Me, too. Guess we'll have to learn to do it, though, because it's HC/PC.

John Dabney Shane interview: "A young man at the low dutch station, John Galloway, a reed maker rode out to go round his cornfield and see how it was coming on, before he got out of sight, or just after the Indians shot him in the arm in two places. They allowed there were two bullets in the gun."

Spence

 

[Black Hand]

Me, too. Guess we'll have to learn to do it, though, because it's HC/PC.

John Dabney Shane interview: "A young man at the low dutch station, John Galloway, a reed maker rode out to go round his cornfield and see how it was coming on, before he got out of sight, or just after the Indians shot him in the arm in two places. They allowed there were two bullets in the gun."

Spence

The use of multiple projectiles, such as a Buck and Ball, is known and appears common in close-quarter fighting between people and for personal protection. Still not a hunting situation...

 

[drobs]

More reading on the double ball load:
http://www.namlhunt.com/ml-doubleball.html

I tried it with my Lyman Great Plains 54 percussion rifle using patched round ball. They print right next to each other:

2 shots in the bullseye were single loaded. 25yd target was from my 1st go at shooting the gun. Lyman's manual recommends a 6 o'clock hold on the target. I found a center or mass hold on the target works a lot better.

Mutiple projectiles are against Missouri's deer season regulations - so no double ball load and deer for me.

 

[smo]

Thanks Spence,
It seems like I recall seeing a double ball load in an older TC manual for a ,45 cal & ,50 cal.
Do you have any recollection of this?

Good Article drobs, Thanks for posting,

My results were similar at 25 yards and less , at 50 yards they were way apart...one on target the other low. But this was with only the first ball patched.

My hunting Buddies results back in the 70's were similar to what your were, I just can't get my gun too print like that,,,,...hmmm. More testing to come, I guess.

Illegal to use for deer in my neck of the woods, but fun to experiment with.
And a great topic too discuss....

 

[Ketchakah]

Its a great conversation Friends,

I love experiments. Multiple balling was well known in the war, for obvious reasons. Hunting may be different and target shooting i would think definitely is. But like i said, one of the fun things is to try different "Theories" Much better to have first hand experience. Although mistakes are ok, we of course don't want to make a devastating one. I've unfortunately witnessed a few of those too.

I am not sure multiple ball is legal for a lot of hunting situations, this does not take away from wanting to experiment. Like many have said, a well placed single shot is probably better. I use buckshot for most things now, but i don't hunt much anymore. In fact i don't hunt at all anymore. So for my intended purpose, buckshot is perfect, as is a quick reload.

I have enjoyed this stuff for most of my life. I started shooting MLs when i was very young and while i have had modern firearms, they never had the same appeal. Now in my stage of life, I have sold most of my modern stuff and use ML exclusively for all purposes.

Back when i was doing most of this learning, there was no YouTube or social media. Computers were only just starting and there was no internet. The only ones you talked to were first hand, face to face.

I come here to this forum to have fun. Perhaps pass along a story or two and some of the tricks and failures i have learned, and make a friend or two. I do not come to seem like the Guru or to look like i have all the answers. Honestly, i don't care.

And i especially do not come here to pass along mis-information. There is plenty of that already.
I do not have all the answers, and i have made my own mistakes. But i will tell you this. If i say it, its because i have PERSONALLY done it. I only relate the information and outcomes of how things worked FOR ME. Of these things there is no argument needed, they are not speculation.

Take it for what you feel its worth. Use it or don't. The choice is yours. And Yes, I value your experience as well.

 

[smo]

Same here Mike

 

[hanshi]

For a .32 or .36 anything from 20 grains to 30 grains of 3F has been both accurate and sure-kill loads on small game. Back down in my native Georgia and due to the 12 deer limit, I took a lot of deer each season; most were with a couple of .45 flinters I own. One shot was all I ever fired at game and never lost a deer.

Everywhere I've taken to the bush in search of game, only one (1) projectile was legal for hunting. And that one ball always left a large blood trail on the ones that ran a bit. About 1/4 were DRT.

With small game in mind, especially, two projectiles seems (to me) a little "over the top". I know that deer don't need two balls; either one or two balls falls into the category of "personal preference". It's not right nor is it wrong. It's just one prb has always been enough for my guns. I've killed squirrels with single ball in calibers .32 all the way up to .58. Hit 'em right and they are DRT and not in the least messed up.

 

[Rat]

Well all things considered, I understand the one posters reasons with something as small as a .32, although that begs the question, is it really impossible to obtain a larger bore rifle, or that important to use "only what ya got"? Perhaps a .40" would work better, and not lose any small game getting ability. Move on up to a .40", and keep 100 yard accuracy?

The trade off with a rifle seems to be accuracy, you get two projectiles, but smooth bore accuracy. In that case, why not use a large caliber smooth bore? (just shot Bessie a few minutes ago. What a blast. Killed that paper plate at 60 yards, just a little, about 2-3", from the center of the plate) (used a wax "biscuit" under the ball, and 140 grains fg...patch is perfect and re-useable)

I think for most of us, the trade-offs just are not worth it. For a man with only a .32", then maybe that's the best option, to shoot a deer. ?? Perhaps, maybe. Purposely hunting grizz, or high probability of a grizz encounter? Perhaps, but perhaps a more dedicated big bore rifle, or musket makes more sense, than double balls in a .54, .58, or even a .62". ? I have shot a few dozen 600 grain thick skirted minnie' over 120 grains in one of my .58's....that might be a better choice. No, don't anymore...recoil in that case crosses my county line for sure. Over the top. Little too much. Visible bruises.

Anyhow, personally, I'd load up my Bess hot and heavy before I would put two balls in my .62", but to each his own.

 

[bradly_tx]

Well I just throw my opinion in based on my experience. I huntsolely with a 32cal, mostly squirrelhere in deep East Texas. And Idouble ball quite often when I comeacross a hog or deer. At 30 yards The balls are no further than 1 inchapart. I have a freezer full of squirrels, hogs, and dear to back it up. It works for me. Your mileagemay vary, good hunting.

 

[bradly_tx]

And it's accurate out to 35-40 yards, plenty far enough around here in these thickets I hunt. And as for buying a bigger gun! Well I don't need one, I kill everything I need with a 32. A 40 does way to much damage to these cat squirrels here in East Texas

 

[bradly_tx]

Take it for what you feel its worth. Use it or don't. The choice is yours. And Yes, I value your experience as well.

Well said Shawnee

 

[Rat]

Well I just throw my opinion in based on my experience. I huntsolely with a 32cal, mostly squirrelhere in deep East Texas. And Idouble ball quite often when I comeacross a hog or deer. At 30 yards The balls are no further than 1 inchapart. I have a freezer full of squirrels, hogs, and dear to back it up. It works for me. Your mileagemay vary, good hunting.

I hear ya, I believe ya. I'm thinking more in terms of "would it work for me", more than "does it work for you". I can see, and believe, that it works for you. Anyhow...did you see the groups Headhunter is getting out of his .40?? I think it would take the top of the head off a squirrel, at fifty yards. Or the fly sitting on his head. Or the head, of the fly, sitting on the squirrel's head. Don't think it would damage much meat.

 

[bradly_tx]

I hear ya, I believe ya. I'm thinking more in terms of "would it work for me", more than "does it work for you". I can see, and believe, that it works for you. Anyhow...did you see the groups Headhunter is getting out of his .40?? I think it would take the top of the head off a squirrel, at fifty yards. Or the fly sitting on his head. Or the head, of the fly, sitting on the squirrel's head. Don't think it would damage much meat.

No I didn't see groups! Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Rat]

It's under "shot my new SMR today", or close to that. Probably page #2 of flintlock rifles. Really impressive. Has kind of inspired me to get the family original rifle out (40") and see what it will do. (maybe see how it shoots a double ball. ??? !!!!

) Been in the family since 1846, and we shoot it once in a while, but I've never really shot a group with it, or tried different patching, lubes, etc. Having plenty of big bore rifles and muskets, I'd kind of like a .40" I think. But probably should not shoot the family rifle too much.

 

[bradly_tx]

Hey Rat
I would love to sit around the fire and just handle an old gun like that. I wish those old guns could talk
Best Regards and Good Huntin