sick of that jackass who writes for NMLRA

[ResearchPress]

As a moderately interested spectator from the other side of the Atlantic this spectacle is quite saddening. What should be a cause to galvanise support and enthusiasm for 'traditional muzzleloading' just seems to have degenerated into petty bickering and trading insults.

The opening post to this thread bemoaned the content of Muzzle Blasts. When the topic of writing articles came up there was much compliant about the lack of or minimal payment.... doesn't seem to bother those currently writing though. So in the meantime you continue to pat each other on the back or snipe at those who deviate from 'traditional muzzleloading', while the 'non-traditionalists' continue to have their articles published promoting their aspect of the sport.

Amongst all the bickering there have been some insightful and well written posts here, but how many of these will actually be reaching the attention of magazine editors in the form of reader's letters?

Surely all this effort in belittling each other could be better spent in supporting your sport?

David

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's true that letters to the editor can sometimes help. Unfortunately, in the case of many publications, they need the revenue from the modern muzzleloader makers ads and the fake powder ads etc. and that is why the modern stuff is becoming more pervasive every year. A letter requesting less ink on the modern stuff is the same as a letter suggesting they refuse money. Won't happen.
Traditional muzzleloading is of no interest to many who posted on this thread and I believe they made that abundantly clear. In fact it seems that a number of them have no idea what it is. Why they are even on this forum is a mystery.
As for the bickering and sniping, that is true, David. It does happen from time to time and in this case, once it became clear that we had traditionalists and modernists and no hope of ever reaching understanding--never mind agreement it got a bit wild. Sorry if it offended you as I have nothing but respect for you. But some of us were having a real good time there for a bit!

 

[ResearchPress]

I agree that letters requesting less ink on modern stuff won't work. Editor's need content (I know, my wife edits 'Black Powder', the magazine of the Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain). Things need to be presented with a positive spin, seeking more coverage of traditional aspects rather than just attacking the modern; but that needs to be followed up with people willing to provide that content.

Bin your magazines in disgust, fail to renew you NMLRA membership... but don't you just become lone voices in the wilderness shouting to each other from one side of a mountain to another and ultimately failing to achieve anything? Like the mountain man, you'll be overtaken by modern culture and fade away.

I've not taken offense with any of the posts. I just feel there is much here that demeans the members concerned, and am constantly amazed at how much this cause seems to raise the blood yet fizzles out in internal squabbling.

I don't have any great insights to offer - here in the UK I have never seen an in-line and the traditional vs modern arguments don't arise. I can't pretend to understand all the issues being discussed, but surely from the 12000+ membership here something more constructive can be done than infighting?

David

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'm a long time member of the N.M.L.R.A. and for the most part the magazine--in my view--still favors the traditional firearms and their use. There is one gentleman who does put a lot of modern content into his column, but it is easily passed over.
I'm not an author, so I don't know the ins and outs of submitting articles to magazines but from what I've read here it apparently isn't a very lucrative business when one does get a story published. Given the history that goes hand in hand with these firearms, it seems to me that there may be more publications that would publish articles if the guns were put in a more historical context. A quick look at the shelves in Barnes and Nobles shows a number of historical magazines and journals that could be possibilities. Now all we need is a group of dedicated authors and a ton of first rate photographs.

 

[ResearchPress]

No matter how lucrative or otherwise having articles published is, it appears from the lead post in this discussion that those with interests in 'non-traditional' aspect of muzzle loading are happy for their articles to be published. So while some debate the worth of their un-written/un-published thoughts on 'traditional muzzle loading' those with the magazine in their hands can read all about modern aspects of the sport.

I am not preaching without experience. For the last six and half years I have had a monthly muzzle loading column on behalf of the MLAGB published in Target Sports magazine. I have never received any payment for this. I do it to support the organisation of which I am a member and to promote a sport I love.

Many here seem to have the time to make copious posts to this forum. Why not spend a little of that time writing up your last hunting trip, providing accuracy tips, explaing how you tuned your lock, or just sending a readers letter to praise the local gun store who went out of his way to meet your needs?

Anyway, I'm off to Bisley in a couple of hours and shooting all weekend.... have fun!

David

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I'm a long time member of the N.M.L.R.A. and for the most part the magazine--in my view--still favors the traditional firearms and their use. There is one gentleman who does put a lot of modern content into his column, but it is easily passed over.
I'm not an author, so I don't know the ins and outs of submitting articles to magazines but from what I've read here it apparently isn't a very lucrative business when one does get a story published. Given the history that goes hand in hand with these firearms, it seems to me that there may be more publications that would publish articles if the guns were put in a more historical context. A quick look at the shelves in Barnes and Nobles shows a number of historical magazines and journals that could be possibilities. Now all we need is a group of dedicated authors and a ton of first rate photographs.

Russ I agree about skimming over the inline articles,I mosty do unless... Like the one in question is so slanted and opionated slamming a state trying to opease hunters NOT! gun manufactures that it's sickened me.
I agree we all need to write the NMLRA and give em a bitchin' out.
My letter was in the mail before I started this post.
I am sure that due to it's redneck contect and colorful launguage that it will be thrown in the circler file, but they will get the point.
Maby some of you more learned folk can do a better and more diplomatic job.
Please do.
Also I understand Wattsy rants or feelings.
I am more of a enviornmentalist then most good old boys but understand that the bunny huggers have not a common sence middle ground idea of forest use but a Not in my back yard attude that I can't stand by.
I try my best to teach urban folk that the woods are here for everbody including logging etc...yes we NEED to stand together but our traditional way is under attack and it pisses me off when I see it in a organisation I support.

 

[Claude Mathis]

If I thought it were financially viable, I'd start a Traditional Muzzleloading magazine tomorrow. My concern is, I would invest a considerable amount of startup cost and not have enough subscribers to pay the bills or content to fill the pages.

A major concern is the size of the market. Would people who already subscribe to Muzzleloader, Muzzle Blasts, etc., pay for yet another publication? Let's face it, the market is very small.


(yes, I know how to put out a magazine) :wink:

 

[Old Salt]

Russ I agree about skimming over the inline articles,I mosty do unless... Like the one in question is so slanted and opionated slamming a state trying to opease hunters NOT! gun manufactures that it's sickened me.
I agree we all need to write the NMLRA and give em a bitchin' out.

I'm amazed that you have five pages of a heated discussion based on your distorted interpretation or more probably false testimony of the original article. WOW!

Did anyone else read the article?

It's easy to sit back and criticise the accomplishments or decisions of a publication.

When you have contributed as much as the NMLRA to the preservation of traditonal muzzleloading then maybe you will be worthy to offer criticism.

The NMLRA is celebrating 75 years of continued contribution to traditional ML. I'm sure they will endure the invention of modern ML as well as your twisted interpretations of one author. As I am sure they will continue to be the best most active traditional ML association in the USA.

Old Salt

 

[tg]

"I would invest a considerable amount of startup cost and not have enough subscribers to pay the bills or content to fill the pages."

True I would suspect, if one limited the content and advertsment to true traditional stuff, no modern sights, or bullets there would be few left to read it, such a publication would be great for what few traditionalist are left but there would not be the numbers to support such a venture, take a look at the membership here if the modern stuff was not allowed topic material I suspect you would loose half the members.Modernizing a sidelock has become such a standard thing right from the factor that the trdaitional term has been pretty well diluted.

 

[jethro224]

David,

Well said! All of it!
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :hatsoff:

It's like you were reading my mind... but typed it better. :grin:

 

[Claude Mathis]

"I would invest a considerable amount of startup cost and not have enough subscribers to pay the bills or content to fill the pages."

True I would suspect, if one limited the content and advertsment to true traditional stuff, no modern sights, or bullets there would be few left to read it, such a publication would be great for what few traditionalist are left but there would not be the numbers to support such a venture,....

That's too bad. I've already started pricing the options. :grin:

Maybe not "extreme traditional", but perhaps better than what's available?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Claude, how about taking a poll here on the forum? With almost 12,700 members, you might get a good idea of the possibilities. Maybe a magazine limited to muzzleloading firearms in existence prior to 1865. This would allow the military caplocks and the various target rifles as well as the really early guns. Patched ball, shot and even elongated projectiles would fit within this window--minie balls and specialized target slugs for example. And they would still be traditional, but it would broaden the magazine's appeal. You can count me as a subscriber.
I think for many of us a problem develops when people take a true traditional rifle and start sticking modern sights on it and shoot modern projectiles and powders out of it and then talk about their dedication to the old ways. I guess for some of us the term modern muzzleloader will forever be an oxymoron.

 

[tg]

This might be possible, I am not advocating a non aperture.conical scenarion just thinking that for a traditional venue they should be combarable to the ones used in the past, else a definite advantage is gained by the use of their high tech superior modern versions, these two elements are what make or break the traditional/modern ML barrior due to the advantage the modern ones offer no matter what the gun they are used with looks like.This is a touchy issue due to the fact that by the late 1800's there were some pretty good bullets and aperture sights butt use these on a 1840 period gun, is not much different than using those of todays manufacture.I would like to think there are a great number of true traditional folks on the forum who just don't post much, but I suspect that the pendulmn will swing toward the more modernized caplock crowd as this is the dominate type of gun since TC gave us a gun that capture a bit of both worlds and set the standard.

 

[akapennypincher]

IMHO :rotf: The BOD of the NMLRA has sold out to the Inline Companies, as it is the makers of the Inline that have the money to spend on advertising in Muzzle Blast. :youcrazy:

That has happend big time in the last 8-10 years, and will only get worst as the Armada of Inline hunter GROW.

 

[dlpowell]

We're over run with deer in Oklahoma. A hunter can take 6, 2 with a bow, 2 with a ml'er, 2 with a gun. Basically 3 antlered, 3 does. I don't like inlines but they get more feet in the woods and help promote firearms and hunting.

At the range I'm the only traditional guy there and when my gun goes off every head turns and looks.

When it doesn't go off my head is the only one turning. :rotf:

 

[Bob J]

"I would invest a considerable amount of startup cost and not have enough subscribers to pay the bills or content to fill the pages."

True I would suspect, if one limited the content and advertsment to true traditional stuff, no modern sights, or bullets there would be few left to read it, such a publication would be great for what few traditionalist are left but there would not be the numbers to support such a venture,....

That's too bad. I've already started pricing the options. :grin:

Maybe not "extreme traditional", but perhaps better than what's available?

Count me in if you do, Claude! I let my NMLRA membership lapse, just don't seem motivated to re-up when 50% of the photos and articles are inline stuff. My opinion (and i know there are 1000s of 'em :wink: ) would be a "traditional-oriented" magazine with, yes, some PC articles, but also lots of "general traditional ML stuff". Kind of a magazine version of The Forum :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Claude Mathis]

...My opinion (and i know there are 1000s of 'em :wink: ) would be a "traditional-oriented" magazine with, yes, some PC articles, but also lots of "general traditional ML stuff". Kind of a magazine version of The Forum :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That's kind of how I'm leaning right now. :thumbsup:

 

[jethro224]

I'd like to see that. :thumbsup:

 

[ResearchPress]

Would an on-line magazine work initially? You'd likely need free articles though.... at least to start the thing in motion. You might be able to develop a reader base though on which to launch a printed version in due course?

I'd be happy to contribute something from a British aspect on long range shooting.

David

 

[Claude Mathis]

Would an on-line magazine work initially?

I considered that, or even a PDF emailed to the subscribers. The problem is, most folks still like a printed copy that they can carry around. I spend enough time on the computer as it is, I like my magazines printed. This may change someday, but for now, I think printed is the way to go.