sick of that jackass who writes for NMLRA

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I concur with Green Mountain Boy that you should get that to the powers that be at NMLRA head quarters.

Very well put :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

"How would you feel if you were a traditional hunter who couldn't get a permit for the traditional season because it went to a guy using a modern muzzleloader?"

I'd like to find the SOB that drew my ML tag this year :cursing:

XXX, a very good post and absolutly defesable by the other side if logic,common sense, and reason are their weapons of attack.

 

[XXX]

XXX,
that was, is the best written reason I have ever read for keeping traditional, traditional.
Thank you very much for posting that and yes it need to be in the MLR section.
Would it be all right if I emailed it to a few friends?
heck email it to the prez to the NMLRA.
:bow: :bow:

Thanks for the kind words Guys. GMB, you or Claude or anyone else can use any and all of what I wrote as you see fit. All I ask is that you clean up my spelling, (Primitive for example) if you are going to use it for some public discourse.

 

[rich pierce]

The best way to fix the NMLRA is to stay in it and submit articles to Muzzle Blasts that support and illustrate the traditional side of the sport.

Folks, we have a problem. In the 1970's when we went to rendezvous or shoots, there were guys from their 20's to their 80's, all shooting black powder and round ball in something resembling an original period gun (within the constraints of what was available and what they could afford). Look around now and you see we're all graybeards. That is a bigger problem. Even in the 1970's many hunters got into ML shooting to have a crack at another deer, and then got deeper and deeper into traditional muzzleloading.

We were about the bicentennial, Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, etc. Many of us grew up on farms or had been hunting from a young age. In 40 years, who is going to be left among us? Who will replace us? It's not the inlines per se or the NMLRA. It's cultural change.

 

[akapennypincher]

I see this thread is still alive so let me give you something to think about, 10 YEARS AGO I heard that SASS (The Single Action Shooting Society) was just a “FLASH IN THE PAN”, and FAD that would go away by the BRASS at the NMLRA.

SASS continues to grow, and attract armadas of New Members, and I think the reason is the SASS is Run Like a Business for Profit, and also they (SASS) are constantly polling member for suggestion, and comments. They do away with the things members dislike, and do new things the member are asking them to do.

SASS is IN TOUCH with their members, and takes members comment seriously. I know that at BASF Shooting Facility, (both in PHX) and Cowtown Shooting Facility when there is a monthly SASS shoot number of shooters range for 75 in the HEAT to over 150 + in the Cool months.

When the local ML Club shoots at BASF they are lucky to get 20. The NMLRA ask for suggestions, input from members, and most suggestion are ignored by the BOD that is most made if of Five Stater's.

IMHO a NEW Traditional National Muzzleloading Association needs to be formed to replace what once was, with a business mode similar to SASS to be successful.

 

[ResearchPress]

IMHO a NEW Traditional National Muzzleloading Association needs to be formed to replace what once was, with a business mode similar to SASS to be successful.

These sweeping statements are so wonderful! :bow:

So, who's going to run this association you are proposing to be formed? What will your role be? I wish you luck with the venture and look forward to reports on your progress.

David

 

[longcruise]

Folks, we have a problem. In the 1970's when we went to rendezvous or shoots, there were guys from their 20's to their 80's, all shooting black powder and round ball in something resembling an original period gun (within the constraints of what was available and what they could afford). Look around now and you see we're all graybeards.

You hit the nail on the head, Rich. Just about all of the same guys are showing up... except the dead ones.

 

[akapennypincher]

IMHO a NEW Traditional National Muzzleloading Association needs to be formed to replace what once was, with a business mode similar to SASS to be successful.

These sweeping statements are so wonderful! :bow:

So, who's going to run this association you are proposing to be formed? What will your role be? I wish you luck with the venture and look forward to reports on your progress.

David

Young people with a vision for more than FREINDS**T.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Not to stir things up but.... :stir: someone must be listening. There is a Markesbery muzzleloader (I had not heard of them before)on one of the auction sites that is very prominently stating that it is NOT an in-line so can be used where in-lines are not allowed. It looked like one but they claimed it is not since the nipple comes out the back of the barrel at an angle. Oh well, there will always be those who can split hairs. Reminds me of how patent lawyers try to write patents so small changes can't get around them while other patent lawyers try to find small changes to get around other patents. What a world. :rotf:

 

[kevthebassman]

Not to stir things up but.... :stir: someone must be listening. There is a Markesbery muzzleloader (I had not heard of them before)on one of the auction sites that is very prominently stating that it is NOT an in-line so can be used where in-lines are not allowed. It looked like one but they claimed it is not since the nipple comes out the back of the barrel at an angle. Oh well, there will always be those who can split hairs. Reminds me of how patent lawyers try to write patents so small changes can't get around them while other patent lawyers try to find small changes to get around other patents. What a world. :rotf:

And would you look at who's shilling for them; the old Jackass-in-chief himself, Toby Bridges! If you can read the following without gagging, you're probably cut out to be a mortician or septic tank cleaner.

Dear Muzzleloading Dealer:



I am proud to announce that I am now associated with a relative newcomer to the muzzleloading industry, Markesbery Muzzle Loaders, Inc. Many of you may well know the founder, Russell Markesbery, who for a number of years has brought us the superb "Rusty Duck" gun care products, especially "Black Off", which is without a doubt the finest black powder/Pyrodex cleaning solvent on the market today.

Markesbery Muzzle Loaders, Inc., brings to the marketplace a very unique rifle design which is a pleasant blend of traditional styling and modern high-efficiency ignition. This is not another in-line percussion system. Instead, this rifle features an exposed, center-mounted hammer which swings on an arc to strike an exposed nipple thats every bit as positive and efficient as the best in-line ignition, but in a more traditionally styled package. In fact, this system is a modern version of a very efficient original percussion ignition system which appeared in the mid 1800's, near the end if the muzzleloading era.

This design could prove to be the most user friendly muzzleloader ever offered. The barrel can be removed from the receiver is just seconds...an optional barrel of a different caliber or with a different sighting system can be reinstalled just as quickly. A fast one-turn-in 26 inches rate of rifling twist performs exceptionally well with a wide range of saboted and bore-sized lead conical bullets. The true interchangeable barrel system allows scoped barrels to be removed or installed without any change in impact. the cross-bolt type safety is the most positive of any muzzleloading big game rifle, totally blocking the hammer from striking the nipple. Unique design allows the use of a full 24" barrel, but makes rifle a full four inches shorter that in-line rifles with same length barrel. Well thought out engineering has eliminated most internal moving parts...the Markesbery rifle has only two...the pivoting center-mount hammer and trigger. And, the easiest to clean muzzleloading system currently available...complete clean up takes just five minutes. No other muzzleloader is as easy to maintain...or from which today's muzzleloading hunter can get the performance needed to bring down any North American big game animal.

Most importantly, Markesbery Muzzle Loaders, Inc. doesn't cut corners when it comes to quality. these rifles are built with finest Green Mountain barrels, top quality walnut and laminated stocks, tough Bell & Carlson composite stocks, premium hunting sights, and other component parts precisely machined from the finest steels. A Markesbery Muzzle Loader is built to last a lifetime...probably two or three.

The company is now designing a line of accessories to be especially compatible with these rifles. One is the optional 400 SRP ignition system, which permits the shooter to replace the standard No. 11 percussion nipple with a much hotter ignition system which utilizes standard small rifle primers. And no other muzzleloading company has spent as much time at the bench to determine which bullets give the best performance from their rifles. The selection of bullets available from Markesbery Muzzle Loaders is the result of thousands of rounds with dozens of different bullet designs, weights, manufactuers, etc.,...not simply a reasonably compatible bullet which could be bought at the most reasonable price.

The rifle design from Markesbery Muzzle Loaders, Inc., should be of special interest to muzzleloading hunters who have concerns about changing hunting regulations which could shut the door on rifles of true in-line design. One good example is Colorado's "on...off again...on again" ban of modern in-line designs during the muzzleloader big game hunts...and pending regulation changes in other states. The traditional center-mounted rear hammer of the Makesbery muzzleloading rifles insures that these rifles will remain legal wherever any percussion system is allowed.

If any of you ever need assistance with muzzleloading ballistics...tips for improved accuracy...effective hunting loads...or any other technical information, please do not hesitate to give me a call at (212) 829-4545. I can also provide photos of hunters with muzzleloader taken game...loading a frontloading rifle...shooters at the bench...muzzleloading hunters in tree stands, or any other photos you may need to help illustrate promotional materials.



Thanks



Toby Bridges

TWO RIVERS OUTFITTERS

P.O. Box 55

Pearl, IL 62361

 

[roundball]

Only one word comes to mind:

Slimeball

 

[kevthebassman]

Oh, plenty of words come to my mind, but this is a family forum, so I'll just keep them to myself.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Well, when you think about it, it is appropriate. Those have to be the most crudely made, fugliest pieces of work that you have ever seen. They look like they were put together in central Africa. He is where he belongs.

 

[thewho66]

I just ckeck out the Markesbery Muzzleloaders Site I am not impressed, the one they say is a traditional gun from 1851 looks like poop. Glad I wont be getting one like that.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Pretty pitiful looking pieces of sh....uh, work. Did you get a load of those prices?

I also noticed that this webpage they're on was created in 1999. Funny thing, they've been around 9 years and I never even heard of this company till I read this these posts. :hmm:

Well, I hope they ain't waitin' on me to order one.

 

[ResearchPress]

IMHO a NEW Traditional National Muzzleloading Association needs to be formed ..........

So, who's going to run this association you are proposing to be formed?.......

Young people with a vision for more than FREINDS**T.

Oh that's convenient and somewhat simplistic isn't it? Espouse the virtues of SASS as a business model, rail against the NMLRA, and set out your vision for the future for others to put in place....

So ultimately your opinion remains just that; no action, but an opinion. You expect (hope) others will actually do something and like so much of this chat nothing happens.

Where does the strong lead and enthusiasm come from to bring these 'young people' into the fold, then to encourage them to become actively involved in an association?

Surely the lead has to come from you, the existing muzzle loaders who have the knowledge and understanding of the initial intent of the ML season. That businesses saw an opportunity here is not suprising, and nowadays youngsters will be coming onto the scene without any concept of the background and issues so ably explained by Mr. XXX.

Your 'young people' soon won't know what they are fighting for, indeed that they needed to fight - they'll just accept the status quo.

So all this rhetoric will do is make the speech makers feel good about themselves, meanwhile what's left of what you are trying to defend will be further erroded. Good luck.

David

 

[tg]

"So all this rhetoric will do is make the speech makers feel good about themselves, meanwhile what's left of what you are trying to defend will be further erroded. Good luck"

Very good points,I believe that the damage is done and the diagnosis is terminal,had this media source been available 30 years ago I do believe that the flood of modernization to the ML hobby could have been controlled as to not overrun the hunting seasons and sporting goods store shelves, at best now we can only expect to keep it breathing shallow, with a faint pulse.It is a simple issue of numbers, there are more of "them" and identifying the problem of apothy in general to late, we have met the enemy and he is us.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Speaking of "apathy", how can you change an organization from the OUTSIDE?????

I have always thought that the first step that Apathetic Shooter have done is to withdraw, or quit an organization when things aren't going their way.

The same in politics. I will never understand why people don't go and VOTE, every time, to try to change things, when they don't like what is being done.

Winning isn't everything.

I have known politicians too long to believe that. I know how they count the vote totals in Every Precinct, at each election, and how devastating it is to their egos if their totals drop substantially. It makes them feel vulnerable, and they become much more cautious in what they do and say.

You can't change things for the better by quitting, and leaving. That just turns a good organization over to the people with whom you disagree, and robs those who agree with you, and stay, of needed voting support.

The Democrats learned that after the 1994 elections, and they have rebuit their Party with the Left Wing, largely because it is the Lefties who have pounded the pavement to sign up new voters, in cities all over the country. It is those new voters that they expect to give them the margin of victory, no matter how inadequate a candidate they field for office.

The same problem has been festering for years with the NMLRA. A lot of good tradtional minded former members just won't rejoin, and those that belong, just won't volunteer to take leadership positions. I would love to see you run for the Board of Directors, Tg, and Claude, too. It would bring some much needed fresh air and direction to what used to be a very find traditional organization, and could still return to that status again. With proper leadership, we could focus interest again on traditional MLers, teach and train new shooters , lobby Congress to change the possession and purchase laws on Black Powder, and do a lot of other things needed to make the NMLRA a truly National organization.

 

[11th corps]

I spent a pleasant morning shooting my T/C Hawken at the range. I have never seen another member of my club use a traditional-or in the case of my T/C semi traditional-weapon on the range.

I have had kids at the range watch in fascination as I boom along with my black powder weapons.
Teaching others about front stuffers is the only way the sport will survive.
Another movie on the big screen like Jeremiah Johnson would do alot to boost interest. My interest was peaked by that tale, and watching a major star like Robert Redford fire his smokepole.
Young people today have a boatload of entertainment options. As our country becomes more and more suburban and urban, interest in the shooting sports may drop by the wayside.
I hope not. I have taught my son to shoot, but right now at the age of 25 he's more interested in golf.
For now, the NMLRA maintains a very good range for the traditional shooting sports, hosts lots of shooting competition. No its not perfect. Members tend to believe if you are doing exactly the same things I do then you are ok. Otherwise you are wrong.
We need the big tent. The NRA maintains its clout with its huge membership.
The NMLRA needs members. And revenue. Whatever it takes to accomplish those 2 things is a positive. Even if some of us don't believe in all of the ways of the organization.

 

[longcruise]

And would you look at who's shilling for them;

Wonder if he'll get ticked of at Markesbery and blow one of their guns up too? :rotf: