sick of that jackass who writes for NMLRA

[faw3]

I wonder when did you jump in to the NMLRA?? They had members a lot more than now, it was when they changed from nothing but the old guns to adding new types it started down hill and it hasn't and won't let up....WHY those other guns got TONs of books to read ect for them the people that started the NMLRA did for one thing and it wasn't to add those. Anyone who hasn't read Clines book ( a reason the NMLRA was started and just a dang good book that will suck ya in to shooting old guns) I think thats what Claude is getting at. In any hunting season I always took out a ML the last 20 yrs or so, 4 wheelers, corn feeders, sent grown out of deer that are shot full of stuff so you can trick your deer....and some people call that hunting (wops sorry I got on my Al and Longhunters kick) :grin: Fred :hatsoff: Your mom sounds really smart saying everything my 81 yr old mom does....but mine said people and the world AINT better now..start with Russia or the 6 murdersw of old people we had the last 7 months...or gas????

 

[11th corps]

Isn't it ironic that people are railing against modern conveniences






While typing on a computer, connected to the internet. :grin:

 

[Emet Huntsman]

The whole inline thing came into being cause states set aside special ML seasons (a whole month ahead of the regular season here in Texas a few years back). Manufacturers rightly determined that people who hunt modern firearms would snap up their product just to get in an extra four weeks. They knew people would want the "ease" of the inline over traditional.

 

[11th corps]

fw
I was a member of the NMLRA back in the 70's.
Due to a variety of reasons I got out of guns for about 20 years. In about 2000 my interest was rekindled, and I decided to join both the NMLRA and the NRA again.
I stay a member of the NMLRA cause I feel its my obligation to support the shooting sports.

I enjoy the friendly competition of the Postal Matches MB magazine puts on. I like the postal match because I enjoy shooting by myself while at the range, but can still compare my scores to others by seeing them posted on the internet.
And I do read John Curry's column every month, especially when he describes some of his personal scouts.
BTW, I have never owned,nor do I intend to own an inline in my life.

 

[Robert Egler]

Isn't it ironic that people are railing against modern conveniences


While typing on a computer, connected to the internet. :grin:

:rotf: :hatsoff: good point!

 

Isn't it ironic that people are railing against modern conveniences


While typing on a computer, connected to the internet. :grin:

:rotf: :hatsoff: good point!

Wow, that's funny. :shake:

Nobody said anything about "modern conveniences", those are your words, and poorly chosen at that.

We're talking about choices and style, not forsaking the modern world. I guess when you've lost the argument you grab at straws and make a joke, huh?

Bottom line? The NMLRA says they are one thing, but they are actually something quite different. Defend them if you will, but they have lost credibility with a good many people by not following their own mission statement. If you're going to change your tune, at least own up to it and stop pretending to be something you're not. That would be the professional thing to do.

 

[ResearchPress]

The whole inline thing came into being cause states set aside special ML seasons (a whole month ahead of the regular season here in Texas a few years back).

As a British spectator, non-hunter and occassional contributor to this entertainment, I don't understand the issues involved with the traditional vs in-line.

If the hunting season is extended for muzzle loaders and shooters choose to use differnet firearms of 'traditional' or 'modern' design, then what is the problem they actually cause one another? Does whatever the modern boys do actually impinge on the activities of the traditional? At the moment I just do not understand how one person taking out his scoped in-line and one with his flintlock rifle actualy impact on one another.

From the shores of the UK, this largely appears to be a case of traditional shooters wanting the woods to themselves for a while and resenting the fact that someone with a different interest in firearms/hunting wants to join them. If there's more to it than that I would be interested to understand.

Thanks.

David

 

[Robert Egler]

From the shores of the UK, this largely appears to be a case of traditional shooters wanting the woods to themselves for a while and resenting the fact that someone with a different interest in firearms/hunting wants to join them. If there's more to it than that I would be interested to understand.

Thanks.

David

Well, the original intention of the special seasons was, in fact, to allow traditional shooters time to hunt without being in competition with those with more effective, more modern weapons. And most traditional shooters consider the inlines as in violation of the spirit of the law, too modern. So you are correct in saying that traditional shooters want the woods to themselves for a while, that’s exactly what the original muzzle loading seasons were set up to do!

However, at least in the states I’ve hunted in, the “muzzleloading season” is actually ONLY a muzzleloading deer season. So for those of us who rarely hunt deer, and usually hunt something else, we don’t have any special “muzzleloading season” for ourselves anyway. There’s no “muzzleloading squirrel season”, for example. I hunt squirrels with a muzzleloader during the same season that everyone else hunts squirrels.

(I never understood the fascination with deer anyway. There’s LOTS more hunters in the woods during deer season than any other time, 2 or 3 times as many I’d say. So it’s a deer, big whoop. :2 )

So to be completely honest, although it will ruffle some feathers I suspect :surrender:, I personally don’t really see justification for a special muzzleloading deer season. But IF you have one, then it SHOULD be true to the original intent, to use traditional weapons. Otherwise just drop the whole special season idea and make the deer season a week longer.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Isn't it ironic that people are railing against modern conveniences






While typing on a computer, connected to the internet. :grin:

The only thing I was railing against is inlines.

 

[Claude Mathis]

The whole inline thing came into being cause states set aside special ML seasons (a whole month ahead of the regular season here in Texas a few years back).

As a British spectator, non-hunter and occassional contributor to this entertainment, I don't understand the issues involved with the traditional vs in-line.

If the hunting season is extended for muzzle loaders and shooters choose to use differnet firearms of 'traditional' or 'modern' design, then what is the problem they actually cause one another? Does whatever the modern boys do actually impinge on the activities of the traditional?

Let's say that they created a special season for traditional muzzleloaders and issued a limited number of permits.

Then, some company creates a modern style muzzleloader that allows people a loophole to apply for that traditional season. Now, you have many more hunters applying for that limited number of permits, but the problem is, most of them are not using traditional firearms, for which the season was created.

How would you feel if you were a traditional hunter who couldn't get a permit for the traditional season because it went to a guy using a modern muzzleloader?

 

[XXX]

One more thing
If Daniel Boone, Davey crockett or your other favorite fronterisman were to come back to life, you can bet your bippy he would not be toting an inline
He'd have an AR 15 with Superscope, and about 500 rounds of ammo. :wink:

:bull:

If Boon an Crockett were brought back to life they would be older than dirt and in a nursing home :youcrazy:
I'm alive now and I don't use a A.R. what makes you think Crockett or Boon would.

Exactly. Whenever I see this hypothetical argument made, it is always done in a vacume without wider context. I propose that if you told Daniel Boone he had to take the rest of the modern world along with the AR-15 he would drop it and run. Boone was well known for sleeping on floors even when beds were available

 

[Robert Egler]

Let's say that they created a special season for traditional muzzleloaders and issued a limited number of permits.

Then, some company creates a modern style muzzleloader that allows people a loophole to apply for that traditional season. Now, you have many more hunters applying for that limited number of permits, but the problem is, most of them are not using traditional firearms, for which the season was created.

How would you feel if you were a traditional hunter who couldn't get a permit for the traditional season because it went to a guy using a modern muzzleloader.

Good point! Never having hunted in a state where you had to apply for any permits other than buying your hunting licence, I often forget that you have to do that in some states.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Let's say that they created a special season for traditional muzzleloaders and issued a limited number of permits.

Then, some company creates a modern style muzzleloader that allows people a loophole to apply for that traditional season. Now, you have many more hunters applying for that limited number of permits, but the problem is, most of them are not using traditional firearms, for which the season was created.

How would you feel if you were a traditional hunter who couldn't get a permit for the traditional season because it went to a guy using a modern muzzleloader.

Good point! Never having hunted in a state where you had to apply for any permits other than buying your hunting licence, I often forget that you have to do that in some states.

Even if there were an unlimited number of tags, what's the point in having a separate traditional/primitive season, if you're going to allow firearms of modern design? (Rhetorical question - it's all about the money)

 

[XXX]

As a British spectator, non-hunter and occassional contributor to this entertainment, I don't understand the issues involved with the traditional vs in-line.

If the hunting season is extended for muzzle loaders and shooters choose to use differnet firearms of 'traditional' or 'modern' design, then what is the problem they actually cause one another? Does whatever the modern boys do actually impinge on the activities of the traditional? At the moment I just do not understand how one person taking out his scoped in-line and one with his flintlock rifle actualy impact on one another.

From the shores of the UK, this largely appears to be a case of traditional shooters wanting the woods to themselves for a while and resenting the fact that someone with a different interest in firearms/hunting wants to join them. If there's more to it than that I would be interested to understand.

Thanks.

David

Let me try to explain. Pure recreational hunting in America, as opposed to market or sustenance hunting is a rather recent evolvement which can probably be traced to the early 20th Century for most Amercan hunters or at least the end of the Depression. The rise of modern sport hunting happened to coincide with the begginings of modern game resource management and other forms of conservation as America became more urbanized and natural resources became more scarce. Regulated sport hunters in the early 20th Century primarily used modern centerfire weapons because they were available and had obvious utility. Over time, the mindset was born that the only way to hunt was with a modern weapon and that primitive guns or bows were not adequate weapons for the taking of game. This of course is laughable on its face, but it was widely taken for granted among hunters, game managers, and the general public as well. If you doubt me, look at your own modern game regulations in Britain. Bowhunting and muzzleloaders are outlawed on the widespread false justification that they are not efficient and humane weapons for taking large game. There is a UK based primitive bow forum where silly Brit archery enthusiasts sit around and dismiss the killing power of the English longbow and bowhunting in general when someone brings it up, even though the Internet if full of evidence to the contrary from American bowhunters. Someone I know from New hampshire killed a deer with a muzzleloader in the early 1970's and the game warden did not believe him. He spent an hour looking all over the body cavity of the deer for an entry hole from a modern gun. When proponents of more primitive weapons attempted to get them accepted as legal hunting impliments, such as the bowhunting pioneers in the 1930's, they were met with a wave of opposition from modern weapon hunters and state game agencies largely based upon this false killing efficiency argument. It was a long struggle to change these perceptions and get these weapons legalized. The old generation gun hunters never really dropped thier opposition, but the game agencies were brought around eventually by the facts. The gun hunter opposition to archery and later muzzleloaders was probably the result of a motivation to have the resources to themsleves as you contend. By the 1960's bowhunting was well established and the idea that the weapon could not get the job done was dispelled. Old style muzzleloaders came back into fashion about this time as well and many of the same obstacles had to be overcome. By the 1970's, most states had seperate bow and "primative" ML seasons that were hunted by reletively modest numbers of participants who were dedicated to the "traditional" weapons these seasons required. In this period, you could not effectively shortcut your way to proficiency with either a bow or a muzzleloader just to get more hunting time.The result was that there was plenty of room in the woods and the hunters you did encounter in bow or ML season were generally highly skilled, ethical, and committed to the future of the sport. As has been pointed out already, there is always an element that is more concerned with results instead of process and will pay any cost in order to secure these results. The sporting goods industry is only too happy to accomodate them and the result is an "arms race" so to speak where unrestrained technological advancement has made it all too easy to simply pick up a compound bow or inline and now even the crossbow and take game with them. The motivation of these new adherents is not love and dedication to the traditional weapon of the special season,( The specific sport) it is simply a method of extending thier hunting time, ( the wider sport). This of course is a valid and legal motivation, the problem is that it is a threat to the purity and very existance of the special sports and thier seasons that most of us who call ourselves traditionalists love. The reason this is a threat is because the "newer and better" advocates and the industry they support have elevated the sophistication of compound bows and inline rifles to the point where they are no longer much of a sporting handicap as opposed to what people carry in the modern weapons seasons. Once the ability to distinguish between modern and primative is gone and the kill totals rise to the level where they approach the modern season, it is likely to be the case that the need for seperate/special primitive seasons will be called into question. At the very least, generous primitive seasons are likely to be shortened considerably to keep the kill totals down. Shorter seasons, smaller bag limits, more crowding and conflict in the woods, more regulations, and potential season elimination are all reasons to oppose the "modernist" trend in what were once "traditional" seasons.

 

[roundball]

Well, XXX...I don't know who you are but IMO, that was the most comprehensive, concise, and factual summary of the circumstances that I for one could ever hope to have created...many thanks !

Furthermore, I vote it be included as a candidate for the MLR articles section...

:hatsoff:

 

[Claude Mathis]

I agree with Roundball. That was the best explanation I have heard to date. :thumbsup:

 

[XXX]

Thank You RB. Considering the source, that compliment means a lot. :hatsoff:

 

[jethro224]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Good post XXX. :thumbsup:

 

[ResearchPress]

Thanks to all for taking the time to post additional information and to increase my understanding of the issues involved. Feelings obviously run high, and to an 'outsider' the arguments even amongst 'traditionalists' can appear puerile. I do feel I understand better now the wider issues involved.

David

 

[Greenmtnboy]

XXX,
that was, is the best written reason I have ever read for keeping traditional, traditional.
Thank you very much for posting that and yes it need to be in the MLR section.
Would it be all right if I emailed it to a few friends?
heck email it to the prez to the NMLRA.
:bow: :bow: